Poor Savage reward system

[Moeru_Kitsune]

I'm sure this is a topic that has been discussed multiple times, but the reward system for Savage raids is, in my opinion, badly set up. You only get a max of two chests with one piece of gear each, plus any additional materials, for eight people to fight over, and even if you don't get anything, it still counts as a reward received for the week? There are lots of players, myself included, that normally get low rolls on gear drops, and so we are forced to wait until the following week. The one book a week, I understand, but everyone should get a piece of gear as well. It should be set up like it is in Normal mode, where eight pieces of random gear appear, and then the group rolls on all of it, only able to get one piece. This current setup is a big mistake.

[VerdeLuck]

It's definitely a system that seems like it was set up with the assumption everyone is in a static.
What I'd like to see is limiting people to greed if they've already won that particular coffer. In the later weeks it can be annoying to fight people who are gearing their alt jobs and looking for your first piece of gear, and they win the roll.

But yeah for PF it definitely is not fun to try to get savage loot.

[Absurdity]

The original loot system simply had an item for a specific job drop. Which meant if you were the only one that could need on it you were guaranteed to get the upgrade, but it also meant that you could get drops which were entirely useless because nobody in your party played that job.

Now the loot system is definitely great for statics because nothing goes to waste anymore and you don't get screwed over on clearing week 1 because no melee dps gear dropped, but it is absolutely atrocious for party finder because everyone will always roll need on everything.

Both lead to you potentially going weeks without an upgrade from the fights themselves, but the coffers certainly feel more frustrating when you lose to someone in full BiS that's just gearing their 5th alt job.


There needs to be a middle ground between the two, but you absolutely should not just get 8 drops per fight every week, that'd kill the content extremely fast.

[MontecristoSandwich]

Fully agree it's a god-awful system. It seems to be intentionally set up exclusively to cater to limiting premade groups/statics from getting BiS too quickly, which admittedly makes sense. But trying to gear through PF runs is one of the most abysmal systems in the game. Nobody ever passes or greeds, because everyone is on the same page that they're restricted to a single clear every 7 days, so even people that already have coffers are rolling because why wouldn't you want potential alt gear?

The compensation system is also just insultingly slow. Like, really? You're going to make me wait four fucking weeks to get a single accessory all because I rolled low between 8 people? It needs addressing. Badly.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

That's what the books are for. Free upgrades for clearing x amount of weeks.

They aren't going to guarantee everyone gets a drop every week. They want the content to stay alive.

[Packetdancer]

I will almost guarantee you the reason it's set up this way is to prevent people cheesing gear drops. Yes, it feels terrible in party finder when you lose that roll and, whup, nothing for you this week... but the alternative basically would make statics wildly overpowered.

If, for instance, you could go in as many times as you wanted and roll on things until you won something, then you would absolutely have a group where they go "okay, we'll run the first fight, everyone pass on the gear and let <X> win everything." Then they'd run it again, and everyone would pass and let <Y> win everything. And then they'd run it again and everyone would pass and let <Z> win everything, and so on, until everyone had gotten the absolute maximum amount of gear possible from every fight in the tier.

The fact that you get one shot during your first clear, and after that you not only can't roll but also will prevent others from rolling is almost assuredly to try to prevent that sort of cheesing. It doesn't make it less obnoxious, especially when progressing in PF, but I would bet you solid money that if they didn't do this people would absolutely shortcut the gear grind that way immediately.

Allowing for that, the one thing I really do wish they'd change is not deduct a chest when only one person in the group has cleared already that week. Having that one slot of leeway does not allow for open-ended gear cheesing, but it does make it a lot less annoying for a static to find a sub if they're missing someone on a raid night.

[Semirhage]

Savage has a weird loot system that was very obviously cribbed from another successful MMO (with tweaks). The thing is, that other MMO doesn't let you swap jobs freely. You have alts if you want to play on a different class, and the loot lockout is different per character. FF14 has a bizarre loot system that's designed around bottlenecking your gear upgrades, but said bottleneck is taken from a system that allows you to gear your other classes at the same time. There are several really odd design decisions in this game that clash pretty starkly with the concept of job swapping; it's like they implemented the ability to change jobs at will, but there are also so many things that block you off from progress with more than one job at a time. I'd rather see this game invent new systems that lean INTO that freedom instead of borrowing from systems that only make sense in the absence of that freedom.

[MontecristoSandwich]

That's what the books are for. Free upgrades for clearing x amount of weeks.

They aren't going to guarantee everyone gets a drop every week. They want the content to stay alive.

I get the reasoning, but IMO, there should be zero reason someone who has cleared fights two weeks in a row shouldn't at least have a single upgrade for their main job at this point. And funny enough, if it's PF we're talking about, odds are high that I still won't have even a single upgrade next week, either. I progged last tier as a healer in a static, so I understand loot funneling and the like; I didn't *mind* not getting coffers when I know it's going to someone that will be there to make next week's job easier... but PF isn't like that in the slightest.

It's incredibly frustrating knowing gear is basically out of your hands constantly, and there's no tangible compensation for a month or more in each category. Even dropping all book requirements by one would work miles for making gearing more accessible. But as it stands; waiting a month for an accessory and boots with 9 more slots to go is absurd.

[VerdeLuck]

That's what the books are for. Free upgrades for clearing x amount of weeks.

They aren't going to guarantee everyone gets a drop every week. They want the content to stay alive.

The books are abysmally slow if you need that gear to pass a hard DPS check. 4-8 weeks per piece when p8s has such a tight DPS check definitely feels way too long.
Adding onto that, if you were to clear all 4 fights every week and rely only on books, you would get a full set exactly when 6.3 drops 4 months later, that's with never missing a reclear and clearing week 1. If you even miss a single week or can't clear week 1 like many couldn't, you're screwed, you just physically cannot get geared in that time

[Absurdity]

Savage has a weird loot system that was very obviously cribbed from another successful MMO (with tweaks). The thing is, that other MMO doesn't let you swap jobs freely. You have alts if you want to play on a different class, and the loot lockout is different per character. FF14 has a bizarre loot system that's designed around bottlenecking your gear upgrades, but said bottleneck is taken from a system that allows you to gear your other classes at the same time. There are several really odd design decisions in this game that clash pretty starkly with the concept of job swapping; it's like they implemented the ability to change jobs at will, but there are also so many things that block you off from progress with more than one job at a time. I'd rather see this game invent new systems that lean INTO that freedom instead of borrowing from systems that only make sense in the absence of that freedom.

That's definitely another issue with the loot system, they insist on adding 2 new jobs each expansion which means more jobs to gear depending on whether or not you actually play those, but we haven't gotten more ways to gear those jobs at the same time.