Questions about MSQ from a returning player

[Monsalvato]

Hello! I'd like to receive some information, possibly without spoilers because I just started Endwalker.

Can anybody remind me what exactly happened to a few characters?
For instance Zenos. He was the son of the previous king of Garlemald, heir to the throne and quite capable with weapon fighting. He was in charge of Ala Mihgo campaign and fought (and got defeated) by our hero over and over, even after "merging" with Shinryu.
He died and and his body got "invaded" by an Ascian (was it Elidibus or Emet-Selch?).

But for some reason (?) Zenos' soul survived, got into a dead garle soldier body, returned to the capital, defeated his own ascian-controlled body and regained control.
After that he killed his own father (but why?) and is attempting to destroy all of Garlemald and eventually the source (why?)

An Ascian, Fandaniel, somehow becomes his servant (why?) using the body of Asahi sas Brutus, and he too wants to destroy the source (why?!)


I'm a bit confused on these characters' motivations. They just seem to be evil for the sake of being evil? Or what? I must be missing something.

[Enkidoh]

Zenos and Fandaniel's motivations and goals are naturally key to EW's main scenario so they'll be answered as you play through the MSQ (so anything I say will be big spoilers). I can say though that Zenos' body was posessed by Elidibus not Emet (Emet used clone bodies of Solus as a young man).

And Zenos's soul survived because of the Resonance procedure used on him in SB - it basically turned him into an Ascian in a way in that his soul could reside outside his body and return to it (or possess another).

Finally Zenos and Fannyboy used each other for their own ends, again the reasons for are revealed in EW so keep playing! It will be all explained in time.

[Monsalvato]

Allright! Thank you so much Enkidoh!
Can't wait to progress in the MSQ <3

[Frizze]

As of the end of Shadowbringers(patch 5.55) storyline you havent been told much about the motivations of our antagonists. When he introduced himself, Fandanial told everyone present(you included) that he wanted "you all to die. And i want to die too". He doesnt give his reasoning. As for Zenos, he killed his father because his father was in the way of his greatest wish("any and all who interfere with my hunt... will not do so twice!"). His grand fight with you at the Royal Menagerie was the highlight of his life, and he will do whatever it takes to get a rematch. You also saw several cutscenes hinting that more was going on with both of them, but whatever that actually is you havent been shown yet.

And yeah, you should have your answers over the next few levels of MSQ. Enjoy the ride!

[Monsalvato]

Yeah so far I've reached The Watcher, I've found the previous identity of Fandaniel and how "special" of an Ascian he is, well more "different" than "special".
I guess I can sorta see his motivations behind the "everybody needs to die" thing.
And I've seen more of Zenos too, wich confirms what we knew already and what Frizze just repeated about him and his character trope.

If I were to say I guess these are reasons "good enough". A bit stereotyped and maybe a bit... shallow? Seen so many times in different medias, it feels a bit overused. Part of me hopes there's gonna be more, then again I don't expect particularly big plot-twists.
Those two characters have probably been designed precisely that way so any more revelation will be in the directions I highlighted.
Not exactely the best example of brilliant and deep writing but at the same time I don't feel like pointing my finger too much at that. It's good enough :-)

[Frizze]

This response written assuming that when you say youve reached "The Watcher" you mean the first interaction with said being.

I will say that after this exact point in the story we do still have a chance to learn more about both F&Z. Whether it confirms what we suspect, changes what we know, or colors what we know/suspect in a slightly different way ill stay quiet on for now. There is for sure more to be discovered.

[Monsalvato]

Yes I absolutely meant the very first interaction. Won't go too much in details because I don't wanna spoil it for any other possible reader of this discussion, but I'm sure you know exactely what I'm talkin about :-D

[Monsalvato]

Oh wow.
WOW.
JUST WOW.


I can't say much without spoilers but allow me to say this.

Fandaniel => Such a deep, interesting, original character. Loved his "real" motivations once we know the full story.

Zenos => Basically he's just the trope of the emotion-less character who cares for nothing except the thrill of a fight. A thrill they felt only once when fighting against the main character. So far it's not different from what I wrote in my initial post in this thread, but there's a few twists and the way they handled this "old" trope in a pretty straightforward way (I'm talking about the dialogues with the scions in Garlemald during the final days, or the final dialogue with the character at the end of the game) was quite neat and made this old trope way more interesting, original and deep.


Overall I'm pretty satisfied. The quality of the writing is unbelievably good. There's a few things here and there that I wish they made a bit better (like some pretty naive deus ex machinas...), but truly overall it's an incredible work from the writers. Chapeau!

[Frizze]

I freely admit that around 5.2/5.3 i was a bit nervous. ShB+ spoilers:

Emet was a terrific foil. He was mysterious. He was an active lore source, but from the angle of the unreliable/untrustworthy narrator. Most would agree that his actions were decidedly evil, and yet it was easy enough to understand where he was coming from. You could possibly see yourself in his shoes making similar choices(or at least struggling with them). For much of the playerbase beating him was a moment of confliction: you were happy to win, but a bit sad that it had to happen. Then we move from Emet(who we only met in 4.4 afterall) to Elidibus. Elidibus had been with us much longer(his first appearance was like 2.1?), but his character has been even more mysterious. At times he has seemed to be playing both sides of the ascian conflict. He didnt have a ton of characterization pre-5.0. But by the time we confront him in 5.3 we know a bunch more. And they present him in a unique way: the immortal who is forgetting himself but wont let go of his mission. We can feel for him too. But by 5.2/3 it is clear that Zenos and this new ascian will be center stage for the next expansion. Zenos is hit or miss, and by this point you have likely made up your mind on him long ago. The new ascian is an overly dramatic theater kid who took over the body of the worst(most hatable) character in the game.

So i was very nervous about how EW would go. The .4 and later patches dont change the characterization in any meaningful way, they just adjust around the margins. So starting EW from a position of not being sure about the villians is actually not at all uncommon. With that said, i ended up happy with where they took the story and the revelations we learned along the way. And about Zenos in particular. In addition to my playthrough, i have watched(in some cases helped) a couple dozen streamers in their playthroughs. Especially of the key ShB and EW scenes. And someone(i dont remember who i first heard say it) made a point about Zenos i hadnt thought of. The streamer was someone who has battled with depression for all their life, and they said that Zenos displayed a lot of the symptoms. Life is a never ending grey hallway. No one understands them, and theyve never felt accomplished. Then they had that one moment where the world came alive. They were content to let that be it, but for game reasons they were forced to continue on. So rather then slump back into that grey malaise, they did everything they could think of to re-create that moment. Also comparable to a long-time junkie chasing the feeling from their first high. Was any of this the intention? We can only guess, but i thought it was an interesting perspective.

[RukoBoshi]

And about Zenos in particular. In addition to my playthrough, i have watched(in some cases helped) a couple dozen streamers in their playthroughs. Especially of the key ShB and EW scenes. And someone(i dont remember who i first heard say it) made a point about Zenos i hadnt thought of. The streamer was someone who has battled with depression for all their life, and they said that Zenos displayed a lot of the symptoms. Life is a never ending grey hallway. No one understands them, and theyve never felt accomplished. Then they had that one moment where the world came alive. They were content to let that be it, but for game reasons they were forced to continue on. So rather then slump back into that grey malaise, they did everything they could think of to re-create that moment. Also comparable to a long-time junkie chasing the feeling from their first high. Was any of this the intention? We can only guess, but i thought it was an interesting perspective.

Must be pretty close to their intentions i feel.
Zenos goes on about how our fight is what makes him feel truly alive, how he have to fight with everything he had to stay alive.

Considering he was extremely lonely as a child, without any friends, a dead mother and a father that didn't care about him, it's no wonder he don't find life enjoyable.
Especially considering he is extremely gifted, being allegedly really smart and extraordinarily strong. Any interest he had he could master quickly and be done with it.

And since he don't care about others, life must have been boring most of the time. Nothing to look forward except for challenges that must end up being disappointing considering his strenght.