Transparency in playtesting

[Kachou_]

I am progging P8S with my static consisting of WAR PLD MCH RPR RDM SMN WHM and SGE. We have been wiping to P8S door boss for 3 days now, no dmg down no death, enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage enrage. According to statistics, this comp is almost impossible to clear the DPScheck. I would like to request more evidence that this fight is even properly playtested. How do you playtest your game to determine a proper DPScheck? What job do you use for playtesting? Are you aware that even a mediocre GNB does more damage than world best warrior? How can you release content that is not clearable for certain comps? What were you thinking?

The only way I can justify this is that the raid is only playtested using ONE SINGLE COMP that devs play. This is why I posted this thread. Please show evidence that your game is properly playtested.

BTW, some people told me to just switch a job. Thank god the savage is delayed for one week so we can waste 500 tomes on some DPS class and only to realize it is the current worst job in the game.

[CKNovel]

"Every job is viable" copium that used to intoxicate the community is hitting back very, very hard in this tier.

There are 3 logged MCH clears, 2 logged RPR clear. Around 90% of the ranged players are DNC.
We had a MCH in our comp and couldn't pass the DPS check even with multiple perfect runs. If we had a Dancer, we counted around 15 runs that could've been a potential clear and 11 that were a 100% clear.
We stopped aiming for week 1 because we were smart enough to realize that we aren't good enough to compensate for what the MCH lacks.

That tier balance has been the worst since early Heavensward.
I really hopes this shakes things up and ends once and for all the "every job is viable" mentality.

[Kachou_]

True. eVERY JOB Viable is such a stupid copium.

[Ransu]

"Every job is viable" copium that used to intoxicate the community is hitting back very, very hard in this tier.

There are 3 logged MCH clears, 2 logged RPR clear. Around 90% of the ranged players are DNC.
We had a MCH in our comp and couldn't pass the DPS check even with multiple perfect runs. If we had a Dancer, we counted around 15 runs that could've been a potential clear and 11 that were a 100% clear.
We stopped aiming for week 1 because we were smart enough to realize that we aren't good enough to compensate for what the MCH lacks.

That tier balance has been the worst since early Heavensward.
I really hopes this shakes things up and ends once and for all the "every job is viable" mentality.

Every job has been viable for years...They are currently changing their design approach whether good or bad is going through hiccups. No balance is ever perfect, but that mantra existed because its been factual for years.

As far as dev playtesting goes. There is never going to be any kind of transparency on how they do things internally. That is simply just not going to happen.

[Kabooa]

Every job has been viable for years...They are currently changing their design approach whether good or bad is going through hiccups. No balance is ever perfect, but that mantra existed because its been factual for years.

As far as dev playtesting goes. There is never going to be any kind of transparency on how they do things internally. That is simply just not going to happen.

There have been peeks into it, or at least, they provide snippets and from there we drew assumptions. For example, there was an interview shortly before 5.2 where they were talking about the difference between Titan and Shiva tuning, where they claimed to have slashed the dps requirement on Titan by 15% from what they were testing, but only did 10% on Shiva.

I don't remember the entire discussion, but from there, the assumption was made that the devs playtest in Tome Gear, and they slash based on expected values on pentamelded Min Ilvl so that the encounter is achievable. 15% sounds like a lot, but the extra is due to differences in intended strategies vs prog strategies, so, again, the assumption is that the slash is overestimated because if an up-time strategy exists, it is not likely to be the first one that catches on.

So while the P8s explanation is raising skepticism, rightfully I'll add, it's not exactly out of line of what they've told us so far. This time they made a mistake, and it isn't even the first time they've made the mistake, because E4s and Titan presented a similar situation.

[Kachou_]

Every job has been viable for years...They are currently changing their design approach whether good or bad is going through hiccups. No balance is ever perfect, but that mantra existed because its been factual for years.

As far as dev playtesting goes. There is never going to be any kind of transparency on how they do things internally. That is simply just not going to happen.

Well, there was an interview in 3.0 detailing how savage content is tested. They also said a lot in the 6.21 patch note. I don't see why they can't provide more detail. For example, do you test your game with all jobs?

[RylaBee]

It's bit of a obvious troll isnt it?

But for the fun:

RPR - is slightly dps taxed possibly because additional support they bring, but mostly OK-ish.
SMN & RMD potencies are hanging way back, than where they should be.
MCH - it would take multi-volume chronicles to explain, what are the reasonings behind how MCH performs, but I recommend you take it to Deepest Dungeons (Palace of the Dead etc), they are supposed to be great there.

WAR is dps taxed for its survivability, probably correctly, since its insane.
PLD is dps taxed, because someone at SE feels like it (also is great in normal content, can substitute healer in dungeons, they didnt asked for it, but whatever).

[CKNovel]

It's bit of a obvious troll isnt it?

It's a slight lie from OP but not a troll.
You cannot clear P8S week one with the wrong composition.
Even bringing a MCH or a RPR needs the whole group to play near perfection and fish for RNG.

I am praying very hard for that specific group that usually run every content with DNC and MCH in their party.

[Lyth]

...

MNK, DRG, SAM, NIN, and RPR all have personal defensive actions. I would hardly characterize the small regen tacked on to RPR's defensive as 'additional support', especially when MNK has the likes of Mantra without penalty.

Also, it's unlikely that jobs were designed to be balanced around six year old single player content. The real reason for these discrepancies is that some jobs are just a lot louder with their complaints than others. And that tends to get reinforced over time as those jobs get buffs over the others.

[ZiraZ]

MNK, DRG, SAM, NIN, and RPR all have personal defensive actions.

DRG has a personal defensive?