4-man variants for endgame content going forward?

[NekoMataMata]

It's not gatekeeping. Complexity of fights inherintly drops the less people there are to do mechanics/meet dps checks.

You have 6,000 post count, have been playing since 2011 and you have no idea how to read. You have my sympathies :/


I already acknowledged that portion of what that person said. What you failed to notice is that they also made it clear that they felt that unless you were willing to commit to becoming a part of a roster and essentially spending excess time with that roster for the purpose of completing harder content then you have no business playing said content.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

You have 6,000 post count, have been playing since 2011 and you have no idea how to read. You have my sympathies :/


I already acknowledged that portion of what that person said. What you failed to notice is that they also made it clear that they felt that unless you were willing to commit to becoming a part of a roster and essentially spending excess time with that roster for the purpose of completing harder content then you have no business playing said content.

IDK why they were talking about respect, I was simply commenting on the other aspect of it. You wouldnt get the same rewards, nor should you, in a 4 man version of an EX or savage fight, because it would inherently be easier. With that being the case, the amount of dev time required to make it work for no real reward makes it kind of pointless. And PF exists for people who cant commit to specifc times.

[Merrigan]

I'm glad someone else noticed this.

I can respect the idea and opinion that 4 man content won't be as difficult as 8 man content due to the fact that there's less people to coordinate with(tanks/healers for instance won't have to coordinate with a double at all). The other part of what that person is saying though is literally gatekeeping.

For reference:


Tell me how this isn't gatekeeping content behind the idea that it should be reserved for only those who are willing to invest even more time outside of the actual content?

Why can't we just learn the content, jump into a group and do our thing?

I (honestly) don't understand people's reluctance about not making everything accessible. It's been several times that my interventions on this subject make people react; and without pretending to be right on all levels (fortunately!), I generally don't understand the counter-arguments on this precise point.

All considerations about the game itself aside (which is hard to do, because it's simply inseparable), it seems normal to me that a person investing more in a game... well, has more things at his disposal. The effort invested is greater, so the reward should be as well. Maybe the disagreement comes from the fact that I tend to see the combat itself as a reward, rather than the loot at the end?

The only exception I would tend to make, here, would be the story; and there I agree with both of you completely. This is a type of content that should be accessible to all.

[Reinha]

Tell me how this isn't gatekeeping content behind the idea that it should be reserved for only those who are willing to invest even more time outside of the actual content?

Why can't we just learn the content, jump into a group and do our thing?

8 man content is not gatekept behind having a fixed group like PotD and HoH are, for example. We are perfectly capable of making a PF group for any raid. Completing it is another matter.

[Toutatis]

There’s a variety of content in the game. Some is single player only, some give you 1-4 freedom like PotD and HoH, then you have 4, 8 and 24 ppl content (and a few other variations) and it is fine like that, there is something for everyone in there and they each come with a different level and type of challenges. The addition of the Criterion dungeons is a new and welcome option. It is not gatekeeping. Different new content > rehashed content.


Making current Savage raids available to groups of 4 would probably make it even more difficult to find 8 people groups as it is much easier to partner with a few friends to kill content than forming, gearing and maintaining a static of 8. It would also defeat the purpose of having to work in coordination with a group of 8 to beat a boss. Just create a PF with your friends if a real static is not possible.

If the new dungeons are really savage level difficulty but for 4 people, I believe that groups of 4 will be more exclusive and people will from closed groups with friends only making it less accessible. If done with randos, it will certainly lead to more bitching if someone weaker joins as it will prevent any progress (we will have to see how they are tuned...the only way to keep the difficulty with 4 is to leave even less room for error). In a group of 8, having a dps that is a bit behind is generally not a problem.

[Banriikku]

Needed skill is gatekeeping ? 8-Man content is not gated except for skill - you have it or you dont and thats ok. We should people give a chance but the outcome can't be same if the necessary skill is diffrent. Lesser people = lesser difficulty=lesser rewards. Not gatekeeping, its skill you need. My Opinion.

[Nyxs]

I don’t think they need 4 man versions. They are called ‘extreme’ ‘savage’ ‘ultimate’. If you invest the time you get rewarded in the feeling of beating it and rewards. All the arr-shb ex can be unsynced if you just want the items. Its not going to be content made for everyone and you have to accept that. There is other content for everyone though.

And for the people calling others who disagree gatekeeepers and ableist. Just stop. You not being able to do harder content is not that at all. You make yourself look silly using them as an argument.

[Pomelo]

I like content like this, I've had the same 3 friends for about 8 years now. I don't do many stuff that requires 8 people. But this sounds nice

[Fhaerron]

Keep Savage and EX as is.

We get new stuffs for mythic plus dungeons.

More 'new' content I like more then just changing current content. If this make sense?

[Merrigan]

And for the people calling others who disagree gatekeeepers and ableist. Just stop. You not being able to do harder content is not that at all. You make yourself look silly using them as an argument.

Thank you ; I didn't really understood those remarks, specially the "ableist" one.