Samurai Buff

[Latarma]

Yeah and nerf DRG & SMN LB DMG too oh and also NIN no more chain kills... :l

If they nerf SAM without adding anything again I want IMP removed crazy how one class has 2 LBs

as my lb as dragoon doesn't go threw guard, nor do i have any form of CC or stun. so imo if Sam wants changes then add a fear effect to horrid roar and make wyremwind thrust it's own button and retune my missing jumps.

[Vatom]

as my lb as dragoon doesn't go threw guard, nor do i have any form of CC or stun. so imo if Sam wants changes then add a fear effect to horrid roar and make wyremwind thrust it's own button and retune my missing jumps.

And horrid roar is great IF you can hit someone with it and IF they're targeting you but as soon as you get CC'd and they walk away or if you're just not being hit it loses any value outside of the sad little 4k or so damage it does.

I don't think fear will help

[Karasio]

as my lb as dragoon doesn't go threw guard, nor do i have any form of CC or stun. so imo if Sam wants changes then add a fear effect to horrid roar and make wyremwind thrust it's own button and retune my missing jumps.

Nah adding fear to Roar would only make pvp even less interactive than it is now, since it's a form of CC that breaks guards and can't be cleansed. I'd rather see hard CC ripped out of other jobs' kits and guard-ignoring moves reworked. There's just way too much right now. But separating wyrmwind from elusive jump would be very nice, since it's one of dragoon's two dashes and in order to get to use our strongest ability we have to waste a dash that breaks binds. The whole thing with wyrmwind and elusive being in one button just kinda works against itself, because you'd use a dash to get in close to someone more often than not but wyrmwind scales off distance AWAY from the target. Just a bit stupid.

You've basically just said that "Horrid Roar is good if you use it correctly" and then "but it's bad if the person counterplays it".

I think it's fine where it is, right now it's nice to combine with every other life of the dragon buff so you don't get dicked as easily and you can really use it to hold the point for a short period of time if you need to, if you're holding off for your team.

I agree that the LB is fine where it is, I would make 0 changes to it in either buffing or nerfing it.

Honestly the only reason why dragoon LB is balanced is the 5 seconds you're forced to just fly around before being able to use the damage portion of it. If more LBs had something like THAT, there'd be a lot more to play around not just summoners and white mages deciding "hmm yes I'll drop my instant cast 18k damage nuke on the whole enemy team". Like with samurai, a 24k nuke through guard is already really strong for closing kills on people turtling or just getting some unblockable damage in, with an AOE. It really doesn't need the insta-kill portion. And we could go on for a while like this

[Tetsujin]

I don't agree with the proposed changes, but in my (limited) experience, it does feel bad compared to other melees in CC. I have fun dueling as SAM but in CC, they get interrupted and messed up by so many things. The burst window is long too, and that's coming from a guy who basically mains MNK. I dunno, SAM feels unreliable. Maybe give them more survibality?

[Arzalis]

SAM will probably be impossible to balance as long as it has the ability to one hit KO. It can stomp new players, but experienced players who know what to look for make the LB almost useless. It's definitely on the weaker end without it's gimmick (which is unreliable in and of itself due to things like server latency).

They probably just need to remove the 1HKO entirely and rework it's LB to do something else and balance the kit accordingly.

[AtomicBomb]

SAM will probably be impossible to balance as long as it has the ability to one hit KO. It can stomp new players, but experienced players who know what to look for make the LB almost useless. It's definitely on the weaker end without it's gimmick (which is unreliable in and of itself due to things like server latency).

They probably just need to remove the 1HKO entirely and rework it's LB to do something else and balance the kit accordingly.

Nah, SAM LB is very fun and flavorful. Makes you think about the job you're playing against instead of treating it as another health bar. It's a good learning moment for new players. Would be a crying shame if they watered it down into something else.

It's still a threat at high ranks, but like with DRG's LB, you have to be clever in your execution, like waiting for cleave damage to come out, or when players are distracted and won't notice the Chiten buff/animation.

[Bhearil]

In paper SAM LB is fine because it punishes mistakes, in reality is a complete mess because the netcode is wonky as hell and sometimes you gonna eat the 1 hit kill AOE LB no matter what. It really needs some rebalance to avoid people feel cheated because they know what to do and servers says "fuck you" to them

[Sawamura]

It's still a threat at high ranks, but like with DRG's LB, you have to be clever in your execution, like waiting for cleave damage to come out, or when players are distracted and won't notice the Chiten buff/animation.

In high rank samurai isn't much threat. During samurai gimmick is own weakness. So it is need to play clever for win.
In low rank samurai is threat. During people don't understand their own or enemy job. So samurai it is a very good job for people to learn their mistake with not pay attention. Just like people try to burst down a full hp dragon who hit them with Horrid Roar 50% reduce damage.

In paper SAM LB is fine because it punishes mistakes, in reality is a complete mess because the netcode is wonky as hell and sometimes you gonna eat the 1 hit kill AOE LB no matter what. It really needs some rebalance to avoid people feel cheated because they know what to do and servers says "fuck you" to them

Funny story I almost never eat sam lb in CC/FL with EU and NA anymore. Special with NA during I has latency issue. The only reason I eat sam lb cause I bait sam away from group.



Back to topic
Samurai toolkit is strong. But easy counter it is true.
I do feel samurai def is weak compare to another melee.
Increase 10% or 8% Chiten would be nice to have since this is samurai only instant def cd.
Or
Ogi Namikiri change to 1 target requirement instead of 2 for shield. Kaeshi namikiri can remain same with 2 target for extra shield.

[CriscoJack]

SAM is by and large the most awkward job to play in PvP. I feel like cast times on a melee are somewhat sensible in PvE, given that your opposition is fixed in place.

However, in PvP, the flow of the opposition is fluid. As a SAM, you will routinely find your cast abilities washing out as the enemy has scooted outside of your little 8 yalm cast. This is more egregious in FL/RW than CC, for what it's worth.

Also, even starting to main SAM now, I still fundamentally disagree with all 1HKO's in any moderately competitive environment. They are the definition of corny.

[drtasteyummy]

Something that would insanely help make the SAM fluid would be (IGNORING THE NUMBERS THAT CAN BE ADJUSTED):

- Remove the casttime
- Make Soten auto trigger the current Yuki/Gekko/Kasha Combo but not more than once per switch
- Make Mineuchi do more damage when current health is low not max wtf
- Increase Chiten uptime from 5 to 8 and lower the bonus damage
- Remove the onehit LB and replace it with something that has way lower CD

Right now SAM is just fundamentally broken, not unplayable but just unenjoyable for absolute everyone.
It's a lot of work on the other hand look they can't even deal with NIN and all you have to do there is:

- Set Seiton to max 2 usages
- Remove Meisui (Optional)
- Make Stealth not break the first 2 seconds after usage (Optional)

and all DRG needs is:

- Increased Movement speed