Double shield healer is an issue now?

[Jeeqbit]

Although I do personally set the slots to Pure Healer and Shield Healer, I believe that all healers can be played as pure healers, because I play SCH as a pure healer and rarely use my shields. SCH has access to plenty of regens and pure heals that can be combined to match what pure healers are doing (SGE is the same since most of its abilities have the same overall effect).

[Darthgummibear]

Correct, but those are GCD shields. SGE has to use another move to access them, otherwise its AoE heal is just a heal. So the issues rarely, if ever, come up, as nothing else in their kits has that issue. And in most 8 man content, you shouldn't need to GCD heal outside of Pneuma (DPS neutral with a huge heal on SGE) or untargetable boss downtime before a big hit, so the issues almost never come up.

Thanks for the clarification. I main AST and not as aware of those particular synergies.

[Raven2014]

If your PF needs so much healing you need a regen healer to be spamming GCD recovery tools constantly that a shield healer cannot compensate for

Where did I say that?

Tbh I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to argue here, given I already said this in my first post: "However, the heal ceiling for most content is so low that it doesn't matter. "

then you are in a trap party,

Like 50% + the PF are?

you simple do not need that much healing in any content (even DSR which is disgustingly difficult on double regen but barely feels harder than savage on double shield)

I already know DSR was cleared by a solo AST, and my friend group had gotten pretty far into it as a double shield. So I'm already aware ...

Again, if you want to be correct on the "technical" points, I already gave it to you. But I'm not "technically speaking", I'm stating reality.

in EX the problem is certainly the team not the healers

Which is exactly my point. I play on 4 char, only the main is in a static. The reality of PF is you're better off with a standard comp in PF, regardless of what the finer technical detail is. Am I saying you "must" have it? No. I'm just saying it's a safer bet. I think people who say "you don't need this or that unless the party is bad and shit hit the fan" missed the point .... Well, guess how often your party is bad and shit hit the fan in PF?

[Packetdancer]

SCH/SGE is a perfectly viable combination, though the SGE does need to be aware not to clobber the SCH's shields. (As you note.) But, I mean... if I'm casting Eukrasian shields, we're probably in free-fall as a party regardless. Given the plethora of non-shield mitigations, regen options, and outright incoming-healing buffs that apply even to the other healer in SGE's kit -- to say nothing of things like Haima and Panhaima which do stack -- in the hands of a duo who are in sync, SGE and SCH go together like peanut butter and jelly. Tasty, tasty peanut butter.

(...crap, I skipped lunch due to that work meeting, didn't I.)

ANYWAY. That notwithstanding, there are a lot of SGE players out there who do just blindly overwrite SCH shields, so a lot of PF parties have trust issues where that's concerned -- or just blindly parrot the "must have one barrier healer and one regen healer" mindset. And the new extreme does have a higher healing requirement than the previous three, so folks are probably being more aware of healers in party composition.

[Sunhwapark]

Tbh, if the players are failing so many mechanics because they think you get a khloe sticker per stack of vuln and are speedrunning to attempt a 3 lines book handin from that single pull alone, then there is a siginificantly bigger issue in that party that goes beyond the scope of healing.

[Jamini]

This is also where one of the fewest uses for Pepsis seems to exist. Since you can pop your Eukrasian shields into HP as SGE before the SCH heals.

It's a shame Emergency Tactics doesn't work with Succor though. Then SCH would be able to do the same thing.

What on earth are you talking about? Succor works just fine with Emergency Tactics. It's probably the best "pure" group heal SCH has (coupled with Recitation)

Please don't give misinformation about jobs you don't play to new people.

---

SCH/SGE works just fine. My first EX.4 clear (twice) was that combo, as is my present static. If anything it's hilariously funny to watch tankbusters and heavy raidwides deal 0 damage as they hit your shields. There is a level of coordination that's required to do the combo well, but that's true of anything for higher-end content.

Generally when I'm with a SGE, I find myself focusing more on recovery over mitigation (since SCH has more on-demand heals and a regen on soil, while SGE has more mobility in their AoE mit). With an AST or WHM it's reversed (I focus on shielding/mitting damage more, they focus on recovery)

[Rilifane]

The "must have pure + shield healer" is complete nonsense.
SGE/ SCH is an insanely strong comp and not just in optimized settings or "in theory". This isn't about theory vs reality, it's about reality, period.

SGE and SCH work beautifully together; their combined mitigation can ensure survival even with several vuln stacks going around and it's not that hard to say "SGE uses single target GCD shields, SCH uses aoe GCD shields". That's basically all the coordination you need and every monkey can do that. I struggle to even call that "coordination" because it's like one tank asking the other if they want to MT or OT.
But people keep spewing this nonsense that "but you need regens" when SGE has one strong regen + mitigation on 30s and one strong regen + heal buff on 60s. That's more than WHM and AST bring combined. SGE is basically your regen healer with mitigation and shields slapped on top of it and a burst heal lazor for good measure. Panhaima + Kera single-handedly deletes a tumult if there is some other mitigation like Reprisal or Samba up as well.

SGE has unlimited EDiag for quick spot healing if someone ate extra/ has stacks and while it's a dps loss it's not only faster but also more likely to save someone than a Benefic II/ Cure II. Haima easily deletes the dot if someone got knocked into the wall/ yeeted back into the circle or autos if they got aggro after tank died and it's not like you need it anywhere else; not even if tanks don't mitigate because you have 2 constant auto heals from Embrace and Kardia.
SCH makes up for the one weakness that SGE has with their fairy, which is a lack if displaced healing. They can both recover just fine and are not behind AST and WHM unless you simply ignore your toolkit.

If you have 2 healers that mindlessly spam their GCD heals instead of using oGCDs then yes, you'll have problems. But taking the absolute worst possible type of player and use it to spin it into a "bad comp, not reliable, bad recovery, nos suited for PF" is a stretch to put it mildly.

Of all the Ex parties I had, healing with another shield healer was always the smoothest experience simply because there is so much mitigation that it's next to impossible to ever "fall behind" and experience emergencies.

[Packetdancer]

Although I do personally set the slots to Pure Healer and Shield Healer

I will admit I do the same, but mostly because if I don't and you have a SGE and SCH, a frankly unfortunate number of people will join and go "Oh, two shield healers" and then leave again.

As I said in my earlier post, I think SGE/SCH is not only viable but has incredible synergy when used right... but I'm only willing to swim against the current so far when I just want a PF to fill. :/

[angienessyo]

Sage and Scholar are fine together. DSR was cleared with a sage and scholar comp fairly early on so I'm pretty sure it's viable.

[gotaname1]

It's a shame Emergency Tactics doesn't work with Succor though. Then SCH would be able to do the same thing.

As a SCH I have to say that you are incorrect on this. Emergency Tactics does increase the healing on Succor.