RDM underperforming by the way of neglect

[Payadopa]

For the longest time I was completely against removing verraise, but now I'm leaning towards it, or at putting it on a long cd, in exchange for more dps. Even in prog, it's rare that I chain raise and when I do, it's usually just a prelude to a wipe, since so many damage downs mean we aren't clearing anyway. It's biggest use is probably in casual content like alliance raids, where I can easily end up raising dozens of times. But in ex or savage, maybe once or twice a fight - otherwise, we're not clearing anyway.

I mean, it's good that you don't need it but that doesn't mean others also don't. Technically, we don't need raise, yet I wouldn't want for it to be removed.

[Supersnow845]

If you look at the stats of the red mage and the summoner themselves, they are currently excessively close in RDPS, it's around 100-200 DPS difference sometimes to the advantage of the SMN, but sometimes to the advantage of RDM depending on the fights, it's just that for world prog 100 or 200 more dps in certain situations it's necessarily interesting, it's just that the summoner and the red mage have a lower RDPS than the bard and to the dancer who is the most disturbing.

Afterwards it's relatively light, and I don't think they will make adjustments to caster before 7.0, for them the current balance is pretty good, otherwise they would certainly have made adjustments to the casters which they haven't not done in 6.2.

The problem with caster balance exists with BLM vs the other 2 and how BLM relates to the melee’s. BLM has kinda transitioned from caster to “fake melee” that competes more with a melee slot allowing double caster to be a viable comp assuming one of those casters is a BLM, but with how high this tier is tuned you kinda feel obligated to use two melees AND a BLM because BLM still gets the caster 1%, but on top of this BLM is falling behind the melees who mostly got buffs because of the crit changes and have a stronger 2 minute burst window than BLM

So BLM is a weak “fake melee” and an excessively strong caster, so either you go 2/1/1 in which RDM and SMN become useless for anything outside of their bonus rezz or you go 1/2/1 in which you’d be better off dumping the BLM as the fake melee for a true melee. This is to say nothing of RDM and SMN sharing gear so it’s way to easy to play whichever one is currently performing better at the time to the detriment of the others

Honestly I’d say the problem actually comes from the melee being overtuned but it’s mostly affecting the balance of the casters

[RylaBee]

BLM has kinda transitioned from caster to “fake melee” that competes more with a melee slot allowing double caster to be a viable comp assuming one of those casters is a BLM

IMO, BLM did not "transitioned from casters to fake melee", it has always been there, exactly for the reason you mention.
If you look at top raiding dps for past last two expansion, BLM has always been among 1-4 top dps except from some short-lived period when adjustments screwed that. Admitedly, this was also because Ninja was regarded as ultimate support DPS, and was lingering at the bottom with Support jobs.

The issue indeed isn't BLM, but that gap between Melee(and BLM) and everyone else has become bigger.

DNC is handling this best due to symbiosis with the strongest dps in the party, which after all is their purpose.
This is true for BRD to lesser extent as well.

Meanwhile SMN, RDM and MCH have to mash buttons&pray to crit gods.

RDM specifically is affected additionaly by the fact, that its potencies has not been touched since start of expansion, while everyone else's were (often multiple times).

Oh hey, RDM HAS been touched ONCE since start of the expansion, in 6.1.:

"Displacement - Action animation has been shortened."

That is why I refer to RDM slide as: "by the way of neglect".

[Kuroka]

I so hope Yoshida follows through and caster rez gets nuked in 7.0. Then we can finally have decent caster balance.

If they take that its the day im deleting my account lol

The constant changing things for balance sake must finally end or we only need 8 jobs which all play the same...

[Azuri]

If they take that its the day im deleting my account lol

The constant changing things for balance sake must finally end or we only need 8 jobs which all play the same...

You will not be missed.

Same as Verraise...

[jdgev]

Red mage main here, still love the job as I did in 6.0 tbh. Lower personal damage sure, but damage contribution pretty much the same as SMN. Idk why people are acting like SMN is some kind of black mage over here lol, the damage difference in raids is like 0.6 or 0.8 so woooow SMN does so much more dps /s. RDM is still 2x more valuable due to verraise. No complaints about the gameplay either. Still feels a joy to play. And anyone who says remove or change Verraise is effectively 1) pretending to care about the job and 2) a SMN main under disguise and you know it. Now... I thought of the following suggestion (probably for next expansion):

RDM gets a new Red Magic Meter. This meter can manually be triggered between basically Charge/Spend modes at the press of a button (similarly to changing Black/White stances in PvP).
While in Charge mode the meter charges up over time while in combat. While in Spend mode the meter decreases rapidly and the Red Mage gains a Red aura around him granting double White/Black mana generation from abilities.

It would be important to switch stances often and at opportune times, increasing player activity and boosting mana generation effectively adding more damage and mobility to the job. Maybe even making spellspeed somewhat relevant somehow idk. I'm a big fan of the PvP dual stance mode, and think it could translate very well into PvE be it by this suggestion or by having the different stances altering ability properties and potencies.

Besides that please give me a low to medium potency AOE heal and a solid hitting melee OGCD to hit hard with periodically. I'd ask for Poison which is a traditional final fantasy red mage ability too but... not sure about having a DoT tbh.

Any opinions or fixes to this?

[Sarantserel]

Some people I know are saying a lot of static at P8S are kicking their RDM out or forcing them to swap to SMN and to me this is a MAJOR red flag that job balance is not a right place. MCH and RPR are in a similar boat and even BLM is not in a good spot since it's weaker than all the melees while not offering the utility of SMN.

[remiff]

Some people I know are saying a lot of static at P8S are kicking their RDM out or forcing them to swap to SMN and to me this is a MAJOR red flag that job balance is not a right place. MCH and RPR are in a similar boat and even BLM is not in a good spot since it's weaker than all the melees while not offering the utility of SMN.

Have you seen the statistics on recent raids, the difference in DPS between the red mage and the summoner is derisory on the overall RDPS, see in some fights the red mage is slightly above between 75% and 100%, if statics expel red mages for such a small difference, it's that they are bad and they haven't understood the real utility of the red mage who is able to rez several players, and especially to reduce damage with magic barrier, if the red mage would have more DPS than the summoner, it wouldn't make sense given how much more efficient the red mage's kit is.

why are you comparing the BLM to the summoner, they are very very far apart on dps, the summoner utility is what? a regeneration and a heal that they don't choose and which overheal in a lot of situations, a personal shield which is mainly based on the summoner's own survival and a 3% raidbuff for 30s, if he is at 30s c is because of the current rotation otherwise having 5% 20s would be the same thing + able to rez with swiftcast.

[Azuri]

Have you seen the statistics on recent raids, the difference in DPS between the red mage and the summoner is derisory on the overall RDPS, see in some fights the red mage is slightly above between 75% and 100%, if statics expel red mages for such a small difference, it's that they are bad and they haven't understood the real usefulness of the red mage who is able to rez several players, and especially to reduce damage with magic barrier, if the red mage would have more DPS than the summoner, it wouldn't make sense given how much more efficient the red mage's kit is.

Ability to raise is entirely irrelevant in a fight where a single death means you are not meeting the dps check. And while SMN and RDM are indeed close to each other damage wise the amount of effort required to reach that level is entirely disproportionate.

RDM has to deal with very uncomfortably timed downtime windows which screw your burst and play close to perfect to compete. SMN just presses shiny button.

On top of that, statics that are currently on p8s are, in the vast majority of cases, the kind of groups who are raiding 8+ hours a day, and general fatigue is much more detrimental to RDM with aforementioned awkward rotation than SMN, where you just press shiny button.

It is only logical that for the benefit of the group RDM should just switch. This is the objectively correct choice if your goal is to clear. And this is not right.

[remiff]

Ability to raise is entirely irrelevant in a fight where a single death means you are not meeting the dps check. And while SMN and RDM are indeed close to each other damage wise the amount of effort required to reach that level is entirely disproportionate.

RDM has to deal with very uncomfortably timed downtime windows which screw your burst and play close to perfect to compete. SMN just presses shiny button.

On top of that, statics that are currently on p8s are, in the vast majority of cases, the kind of groups who are raiding 8+ hours a day, and general fatigue is much more detrimental to RDM with aforementioned awkward rotation than SMN, where you just press shiny button.

It is only logical that for the benefit of the group RDM should just switch. This is the objectively correct choice if your goal is to clear. And this is not right.

Unfortunately they don't balance on the difficulty of a job rotation, they generally balance the roles and their respective utility/buff, but I agree that the summoner has a no brain rotation and that the red mage Definitely needs more thought, but it's square enix's fault and not the summoner, they released a summoner that has the gameplay of a lvl 60 job,
That's not why the summoner should be bad..

It's especially the balance of the melee DPS which is excessively bad, some melee except the reapers have an indecent dps for the RDPS they bring. and that creates a pretty big gap with other roles because they haven't had their damage adjusted based on the overbuffs that melee DPS have had.
the ninja, the dragoon and the monk should be nerfed.