RDM underperforming by the way of neglect

[remiff]

Some people I know are saying a lot of static at P8S are kicking their RDM out or forcing them to swap to SMN and to me this is a MAJOR red flag that job balance is not a right place. MCH and RPR are in a similar boat and even BLM is not in a good spot since it's weaker than all the melees while not offering the utility of SMN.

Have you seen the statistics on recent raids, the difference in DPS between the red mage and the summoner is derisory on the overall RDPS, see in some fights the red mage is slightly above between 75% and 100%, if statics expel red mages for such a small difference, it's that they are bad and they haven't understood the real utility of the red mage who is able to rez several players, and especially to reduce damage with magic barrier, if the red mage would have more DPS than the summoner, it wouldn't make sense given how much more efficient the red mage's kit is.

why are you comparing the BLM to the summoner, they are very very far apart on dps, the summoner utility is what? a regeneration and a heal that they don't choose and which overheal in a lot of situations, a personal shield which is mainly based on the summoner's own survival and a 3% raidbuff for 30s, if he is at 30s c is because of the current rotation otherwise having 5% 20s would be the same thing + able to rez with swiftcast.

[Azuri]

Have you seen the statistics on recent raids, the difference in DPS between the red mage and the summoner is derisory on the overall RDPS, see in some fights the red mage is slightly above between 75% and 100%, if statics expel red mages for such a small difference, it's that they are bad and they haven't understood the real usefulness of the red mage who is able to rez several players, and especially to reduce damage with magic barrier, if the red mage would have more DPS than the summoner, it wouldn't make sense given how much more efficient the red mage's kit is.

Ability to raise is entirely irrelevant in a fight where a single death means you are not meeting the dps check. And while SMN and RDM are indeed close to each other damage wise the amount of effort required to reach that level is entirely disproportionate.

RDM has to deal with very uncomfortably timed downtime windows which screw your burst and play close to perfect to compete. SMN just presses shiny button.

On top of that, statics that are currently on p8s are, in the vast majority of cases, the kind of groups who are raiding 8+ hours a day, and general fatigue is much more detrimental to RDM with aforementioned awkward rotation than SMN, where you just press shiny button.

It is only logical that for the benefit of the group RDM should just switch. This is the objectively correct choice if your goal is to clear. And this is not right.

[remiff]

Ability to raise is entirely irrelevant in a fight where a single death means you are not meeting the dps check. And while SMN and RDM are indeed close to each other damage wise the amount of effort required to reach that level is entirely disproportionate.

RDM has to deal with very uncomfortably timed downtime windows which screw your burst and play close to perfect to compete. SMN just presses shiny button.

On top of that, statics that are currently on p8s are, in the vast majority of cases, the kind of groups who are raiding 8+ hours a day, and general fatigue is much more detrimental to RDM with aforementioned awkward rotation than SMN, where you just press shiny button.

It is only logical that for the benefit of the group RDM should just switch. This is the objectively correct choice if your goal is to clear. And this is not right.

Unfortunately they don't balance on the difficulty of a job rotation, they generally balance the roles and their respective utility/buff, but I agree that the summoner has a no brain rotation and that the red mage Definitely needs more thought, but it's square enix's fault and not the summoner, they released a summoner that has the gameplay of a lvl 60 job,
That's not why the summoner should be bad..

It's especially the balance of the melee DPS which is excessively bad, some melee except the reapers have an indecent dps for the RDPS they bring. and that creates a pretty big gap with other roles because they haven't had their damage adjusted based on the overbuffs that melee DPS have had.
the ninja, the dragoon and the monk should be nerfed.