[Megathread] What's wrong with 6.21, patch balance and nerfing p8s

[Aikaal]

I'm gonna keep it transparent and honest. I don't think Square ever cares about our opinion on jobs. Only a selected few individual believes it should remain as it is. I know the majority is pretty unhappy about how balance is and while it is great Paladin and Warrior got a small candy. I doubt anything has changed. Also, this is mainly a DPS focused thread but I'm also expecting some comments about Paladin and Warrior anyways~ They are welcome.

I will also update this thread upon people's opinion on the issue and what's needed to be address. I sorta wish to transport everyones feeling in 1 thread that Square will have to watch and care. We're all passionate about the main we play so let's try to be civil. There's a few I'd like to point out however; This isn't about disliking aspects of gameplay. I absolutely agree, Kaiten should have never been removed but it has no place to be talked here. I have my own personal and strong opinion on how SMN plays and I won't be saying it here.

Be mindful I'm not a robot, I'll update when I have time to read and when someone points out something and pretty much everyone agrees. I personally feel what I think is in accord with most people here but I don't play all job. Also, if you're this one guy who think we always complain when they make change and you think everything is fine. Like, it's not fine. The balancing of this game is not fine period and I will ignore you.

Also, it would be really great at one point to see an actual dev to reply to one of those thread because we do feel pretty ignored.

[Aikaal]

Facts from SE

• P8S was overtuned by 1%. It seems their test team performed better than the average player time around.
• Minor potency buffs on Paladin and Warrior translate as no other job needed an immediate buff.
• Crit and DH buff was a needed change.
• Auto-Crit and Auto-DH is the way to go.
• Roughly 8% to 10% difference between a melee DPS and a Ranged/Caster was needed.
• Nerfing a job isn't SE mentality, they will only buff.
• Fight designs have changed to prevent Melee DPS to lose any uptime.
• .

[Aikaal]

SE Facts versus what we are observing

• Unfortunately for SE, there are data available and we can see not every party comp had the same odds of clearing week 1 or week 2. Did SE made intensive tests only with 1 comp? Can SE be transparent and put more details on exactly how they perform their tests. Do they do them with multiple comps? If so, are doing trying double caster comps and double physical ranged comps? We are forced to play double melee comp and not every group likes to do that.
• We are observing a pure DPS job like Machinist is behind his other roles partners. Bard and Dancer. They are also about 10% behind a melee selfish DPS job.
• We are observing the ranged DPS tax is no longer needed. Because melee have full uptime and rarely lose a GCD. Sometimes they may lose positional but losing positional doesn't translate as needing. Here's the extend of the issue with this picture. It's a meme but it's pretty good because of how accurate it is.
  
  The best Machinist on a fight can't beat 93% of the monks who cleared this fight. The higher and close you are to 100 percentile on fflogs, the more you are perfect and claim to be the strongest at the job you play. This means one worst monks are still more valuable than the best Machinist for the fight.
• We are observing the crit/DH change has buffed some jobs and done nothing for others. Monks are the biggest winner with Bootshine always being a crit. Jobs like Summoner, Reaper or Red Mage got absolutely nothing from it.
• We are observing 2 minutes burst windows don't always work. Certain jobs like SMN and PLD get their burst desync and get punished purely by fight design.

[Aikaal]

Wishlist

• Can we have more detail how you proceed with fight testing and are you trying to clear with a double caster comp and double ranged comp? Any comp should be able to clear. We have an hard time to understand what lead you to think the fight was fine and it leads us to think the fight was designed around 1 comp.
• Can we have potency buffs for jobs that need it. SMN, RDM, RPR, MCH.
• Melee DPS still need to deal the most damage due to positional. There should a much smaller difference between melees and Caster/ranged physical. 2% to 3% while selfish jobs like Machinist, Samurai and Black Mage should have their own category and do similar damage.
• Some believe auto DH/Crit is a flawed design. Either every job needs to embrace it or it shouldn't exist. In any case. Jobs who don't benefits need compensation.
• Design fights that allow proper burst windows or reconsider the two minute burst window.

[Aikaal]

Alright, if there's anything I missed. Let me know. I'm going to sleep right now. I'll update when points are coming in and make sense. I don't have the arrogance to believe I've thought of everything.

[ZiraZ]

Wishlist

• Can we have more detail how you proceed with fight testing and are you trying to clear with a double caster comp and double ranged comp? Any comp should be able to clear. We have an hard time to understand what lead you to think the fight was fine and it leads us to think the fight was designed around 1 comp.
• Can we have potency buffs for jobs that need it. SMN, RDM, RPR, MCH.
• Melee DPS still need to deal the most damage due to positional. There should a much smaller difference between melees and Caster/ranged physical. 2% to 3% while selfish jobs like Machinist, Samurai and Black Mage should have their own category and do similar damage.
• Some believe auto DH/Crit is a flawed design. Either every job needs to embrace it or it shouldn't exist. In any case. Jobs who don't benefits need compensation.
• .

RPR does not need buffs.

[momokami]

[Curisu]

SE should get rid of the idea to give every class a 10-20 sec burst phase every two minutes.
There are just so few ways to make them interesting and not to similar to others.

Also, PLD as one of the last job's without a significant burst phase does only need potency adjustment.
He is good as he is now, easy to understand the basics and room to improve more.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

They need to make reaper perform better. It was said in the LL to be a selfish DPS similar to Samurai. That is the comparison Yoshi P made and as such I expect it's damage to not be too far from one. Week one the diff between a rpr and sam was night and day, unacceptable.

They can remove the hot from arcane crest entirely if it makes them feel justified in buffing it idc. I want the high dps that was expected when they decide to compare it to a samurai. They meant for it to be high dps only on release it was too high. They buffed the rest too far above it and now it's just weak by comparison.

[Serpent1ng]

RPR does not need buffs.

I honestly don't understand how you can look at the DPS disparity between Reaper and the rest of the melee dps and say that with a straight face.