Anyone else tired of auto-losses by composition?

[VoidsentStatus]

Surprised noone has mentioned this yet on the forums despite how often I see people complain about it in game/youtube, but why can't we have minimum compositions? Not even overkill, but something like 1 tank, 1 heal, 2 melee dps, 2 ranged dps. Been annoying to go on Season 3 and still see 3 healer comps, 2-3 tanks and 1-2 heal comp where 60-80% of your team isn't dps and you realize after the first 2-3 minutes of shotcalling the match your team just flat out doesn't have the damage to kill anyone/push the crystal and you spend the next 3-4+ minutes struggling in vain because there's no surrender vote, 5 dps comps in Diamond/Crystal which is nearly auto-win with decent communication on picking a target, games with a healer and 4 range dps that has no frontline at all.

There's already RNG who's getting legit bronze and who gets ex-plat/diamond/crystal's on their team, already RNG to pray you don't see a win-trader or a person who's at 0-40k damage in a 5 minute match every 3 games because even in Gold you get put with Unranked ppl who have 0 pvp experience, can we at least get rid of one layer of RNG, and even we don't standardize dps grouping like pve, at least guarantee a tank each game?

[Nanne]

How come people actually play like 4 healers and a DPS in premade custom matches and win? The higher you go the more importance is on the player and not the job

[VoidsentStatus]

play like 4 healers and a DPS in premade custom matches and win?

I have no idea what this means or is a reference to as every triple heal comp team I've seen in high diamond/crystal in previous seasons has lost and no1 runs more than 2 healers in the CC tournaments full of the top ranked 100 players, and even then they're stacked with 2-3 meta dps in addition to both of those healers (one of which seems to always be astro to buff said dps's)

[drtasteyummy]

Because it's the exact reason why they introduced "damage dealing healers" and "damage dealing tanks" in the first place - to not have a meta. The queues are fast and nobody feels pushed to play a certain role like in OW where tanks have instant pops and dd's wait over 30 minutes. It's hilarious because I think you are absolutely right, the difference from 5dd stack vs 3dd1h1t or 3dd2h are so gigantic that it just seals the deal 90 percent of the time just by pure comp. Mixbreed jobs are fundamentally flawed by default, either they're are absolute trash because they don't fill any of both roll or they do both so good that they outclass normal dds in the right comp by a mile but in SE mind it just works.

[Azuri]

Anyone else tired of people who still, after half a year, didn't realize that conventional roles associated with jobs are irrelevant in new PvP?

[VoidsentStatus]

Anyone else tired of people who still, after half a year, didn't realize that conventional roles associated with jobs are irrelevant in new PvP?

Ehhhh, conventional roles are what dictates the parts of the kit that actually matter as well as passive stats such as health and defense. The reason 5 dps trash most compositions is because tank and heals don't matter if the focus and burn is high enough to not allow for multiple uses or a single use at all. As an example, there's no point in WHM having Cure 2 as a cast when a player can die before that cast even finishes. There's not a point in having an aoe heal if you got Astro LB'd into a Dragoon LB, especially if it crits and your team is entire 1shotted. There's not a point in having an LB even all the time (PLD as an example) if you're the job that gets focused first and killed during the duration of the imp or a silence. LB Design for ease of denying use, healing or shielding that is passively/preloaded, the ability to handle/recover from or dish out important CC are all based on conventional roles. They tried to blend them, but at the highest level, the tools that cause the blend are robbed/not used and as soon as that happens, you're comparing base job kits to base job kits, where say a WHM is nowhere near as useful as say a DRG that can do 34K aoe damage every 20s. A BRD is not going to replace the AoE damage and lockdown CC of a warrior, nor are they going to replace the team utility of saving someone like a Paladin. The only reason warrior and pld even have those things that are important in their kit is due to conventional roles.

[Petite]

I never worry about team comps. Jobs weigh much less than player skill the higher up the tiers you get.

The only thing that hurts my hopes of winning is having a known deadweight player in my team.

[AshaStardust]

Anyone else tired of people who still, after half a year, didn\\'t realize that conventional roles associated with jobs are irrelevant in new PvP?

A little, but Scholars and Astros have absolutely no ability to mass CC or focus down a kill target. Once you set your poisons as a scholar, you going to rush in to mummify then get deleted in 2 seconds by a CC chain? It is about throughput not just healing. Hell even many DPS classes don’t have potency for kill potential if their team isn’t blasting the opponents they silence or root

[Azuri]

Ehhhh, conventional roles are what dictates the parts of the kit that actually matter as well as passive stats such as health and defense. The reason 5 dps trash most compositions is because tank and heals don't matter if the focus and burn is high enough to not allow for multiple uses or a single use at all. As an example, there's no point in WHM having Cure 2 as a cast when a player can die before that cast even finishes. There's not a point in having an aoe heal if you got Astro LB'd into a Dragoon LB, especially if it crits and your team is entire 1shotted. There's not a point in having an LB even all the time (PLD as an example) if you're the job that gets focused first and killed during the duration of the imp or a silence. LB Design for ease of denying use, healing or shielding that is passively/preloaded, the ability to handle/recover from or dish out important CC are all based on conventional roles. They tried to blend them, but at the highest level, the tools that cause the blend are robbed/not used and as soon as that happens, you're comparing base job kits to base job kits, where say a WHM is nowhere near as useful as say a DRG that can do 34K aoe damage every 20s. A BRD is not going to replace the AoE damage and lockdown CC of a warrior, nor are they going to replace the team utility of saving someone like a Paladin. The only reason warrior and pld even have those things that are important in their kit is due to conventional roles.

- all tooltip damage in Crystalline Conflict is true damage and every job has the same passive resistances, i.e none of them.
- you literally cannot crit in PvP.
- and then a bunch of skill issues which I kinda refuse to read because I'm a weakling that requires paragraphs.

Sorry, you only reinforced my opinion that you have very little idea what you are talking about.

[VoidsentStatus]

- all tooltip damage in Crystalline Conflict is true damage and every job has the same passive resistances, i.e none of them.
- you literally cannot crit in PvP.
- and then a bunch of skill issues which I kinda refuse to read because I'm a weakling that requires paragraphs.

Sorry, you only reinforced my opinion that you have very little idea what you are talking about.

true damage -> doesn't affect different health pools

every job has same passive resistance -> not in every mode in pvp. which your original post doesn't specific as CC only, just new pvp in general

cannot crit in pvp -> interesting considering i've dragoon lb'd for 40-45K without team buffs on me, guess that must've been a bug or a wide spread on the damage value rng in season 1 when i was full-life'ing ppl by myself on the crystal

a bunch of skill issues -> yeah, i guess when the top 30 players in the standings for Aether, Primal, and Crystal get 1shotted by a monk before they can even cast an LB in tournaments, its a skill problem

I have very little idea what I'm talking about -> Do you have Crystal tier for Season 1, and then another Crystal tier for Season 2 on another data center? Did you rank up on two of the most competitive data centers for pvp as a non-meta job? Because seeing you on EU, makes me not want to take your opinion since I know EU is dead for certain PvE content as well as it's roleplay community, so I doubt it has as much competition for PvP which is normally a smaller community than both of those compared to Aether and Primal. I'd gladly introduce you to Jay Vermillion's monk and tell me afterward your healing kit as a healer is important in high elo.