How I would work SMN into the game

[Otaku]

So according to the poll a lot of people want a pet class over classes that might actually be more helpful in more situations, so here my ideas on how everyone can get what they want. First off the job can't be overpowered or we'll just switch from stacking BLM to stacking SMN in parties, make it useful for both solo and party play.

Let it start with the class Arcanist (sp?)(ART from now on, could be ARX or ARS but we have ARC already). Give them some water and dark magic for mild DPS since no one is using it atm, also give them enfebs/debuffs (slow/stat down) and DoT's (poison/choke). ART would move onto SMN, ART30/THM15 makes sense (could use CNJ spells as 3rd class skills).

Now for the hard part, how would SMN work with only 5 special skills atm. There are two ways I think this would work. First way (and this kinda makes it a non pet class) have the summons pop, cast a spell and dissipate leaving a strong buff/debuff/enfeb for like 30sec on a 1min recast (or 1min on a 2min recast, minor detail). Second option is let the summon stay with the caster for the 30sec/1min duration and have it apply a set rotation of strong buffs/debuffs/enfebs to party members and/or mobs. With 5 skills we could get 4 summons and a 15min that 2x the duration/strength of a summon.

These are just ideas that I have been thinking about since I saw the poll results and was saddened that no on thinks we need a debuff/enfeb/DoT class/job (idc if it melee but we need one), are we gonna be taking 8 people plus 3 pets to AV/CC or Ifrit/Garuda? I think people are thinking about what they want more then what we need, maybe my ideas need more work. Just tell me what you think, I'm open to suggestions on how SMN will work in our current battle system.

[Alkar]

SMN shouldn't come from Arcanist, that's a really bad idea imo.
Summoner is more than anything a DD and a buffer/enfeebler after that. It should come from a pet class so it can have basic pet commands that won't take up the precious 5 slots. Other than that being a pet class it'll work differently so I doubt summons will be unlocked through quests but rather gained in a different way, with job quests adding abilities to better control them.
And why is a pet job not needed? Heck with enfeebles working the way they are now a class dedicated to it would never show up in any kind of event.
If you think this poll is gonna change their plans I'd say you're dead wrong, Yoshi-P has been pretty clear about needing a pet class and more mages in the game before anything else and this was months ago. The classes are most likely being worked on if not finished by now with 2.0 being months away.
If anything it's sad to see that melees got the second spot over RDM, SMN being first is no surprise in a FF game.

[Renen]

Your post said too many obvious things.
1) "It can't be OP" (Well obviously)
2) "I don't know how it will work with only 5 job skills" (Well, I guess SE will add it in 2.0 where they WILL be able to do thing to bypass that limitation.
3) " I'm open to suggestions on how SMN will work in our current battle system." (Well, you aren't a game developer, we can't actually suggest anything to you. We can discuss things with you.

[KoujiGeki]

But then that just makes Summoner more of a support class that no one wants.

I dont know why this trend of Arcanist would be summoners class counter part, when it would most likely be evoker.What FF was Arcanist in and what did it do?

Evoker can have The command abilities attack, return, dismiss, Physical TP ability, Magic Tp Ability and 8 summons to pick from and still has 2 slots left, which can go to Elemental Siphon, or like you mention a Water Spell and Dark Spell.

Fire - Salamander (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Water - Bismarck (Final Fantasy 6)
Wind - Pandemona (Final Fantasy 8)
Lightning - Ixion (Final Fantasy 10,11,12) or Quetzalcoatl (Final Fantasy 8)
Earth - Midgardsormr (Final Fantasy 6,7,12)
Ice - N/A can't find a ICE based summon to replace Shiva. Maybe SE will make one?
Dark - Diabolos (Final Fantasy 6,8,11,12) Would be Fenrir but he was only Dark in 11. In other FFs hes Wind.
Light - Mist Dragon (Final Fanasy 6) I kinda wanna lead away from Carbuncle sorry guys.

And having pets out at all times would just be cooler. Cause to me, just calling them out to only attack then they leave is boring. Having them stay out makes me think its more like a partnership with the summon than just using it as a tool.
And god help SE if it only have 4 god damn summons lol. It better have 8 summons for every element. And Bahamut for a Non elemental! (Please Yoshi!)

They can design them (god help me ) like in 11 to have Physical, Magical, and Enfeebling attacks. They can cause huge mp to summon. Which can hurt cause of all the Heavy AoEing mobs like Ifrit, Garuda, CC, Chimera, etc.

[Otaku]

Summoner is more than anything a DD and a buffer/enfeebler after that.

We currently have 4 DD jobs out of 7, 1 is even a DD/buffer, do we need another?

2) "I don't know how it will work with only 5 job skills" (Well, I guess SE will add it in 2.0 where they WILL be able to do thing to bypass that limitation.

Don't know what you mean here, from what I understand battle mechanics and the class/job system won't change that much in 2.0

But then that just makes Summoner more of a support class that no one wants.

I don't understand why no one would want a magic based support class? Having debuffs so a boss can't 1shot a tank or aoe enfebs so adds die off on their own without people worrying about them sounds like something I would want in my party.

[KoujiGeki]

We currently have 4 DD jobs out of 7, 1 is even a DD/buffer, do we need another?


Don't know what you mean here, from what I understand battle mechanics and the class/job system won't change that much in 2.0


I don't understand why no one would want a magic based support class? Having debuffs so a boss can't 1shot a tank or aoe enfebs so adds die off on their own without people worrying about them sounds like something I would want in my party.

well for 1 debuff might mainly be on Rdm so having it will defeat the point of having Smn. 2 the Debuffing system blows. No debuffing spell will stop a one shot if its gonna happen. The debuffs dont last long enough and on bosses They barely take effect. And if a rdm cant debuff a boss that well there no way in hell a Smn is gonna do it.

[Otaku]

well for 1 debuff might mainly be on Rdm so having it will defeat the point of having Smn. 2 the Debuffing system blows. No debuffing spell will stop a one shot if its gonna happen. The debuffs dont last long enough and on bosses They barely take effect. And if a rdm cant debuff a boss that well there no way in hell a Smn is gonna do it.

Yea after talking to some friends/LS mates we are under the impression that we will get some type of all the jobs listed, I think SMN/BST just got more votes because people are like "Oh I want a pet" and was kinda thinking of how it could be improved over how it was in XI but pet classes are mainly for solo play imo.
As for the fact that debuffs/enfebs don't last long or barely effect mobs, no one that I know of stacks enfeb magic pot and I think that would change when RDM is introduced and they get some nice skills, if I could say cast atk down on Coincounter or throw a DoT on Chim while BLM's burn ants I would gladly take a RDM in endgame over a SMN.

[Duelle]

I don't understand why no one would want a magic based support class? Having debuffs so a boss can't 1shot a tank or aoe enfebs so adds die off on their own without people worrying about them sounds like something I would want in my party.

Because debuffs are a teriary class element. That and because of the trinity, AKA tank, heals DPS. Not to mention that we shouldn't really aim to reduce SMN to "support" a second time.

and i hope they add Evoker as the Class cause having it branch fron cnj/thm would be so generic and lame cause ill already have it at 50 =(

Aside from the fact people throw the word generic around too much, I don't see how they'd be able to pull that off. Granted, we don't know how classes are going to work post-2.0, but assuming we'd have multiple jobs branching from each class, SMN would stick out because it is pretty specific in purpose.

Personally, I'd ensure that keeping the Avatar out is easy and maybe even free, but changing Avatars is extremely costly to the SMN. Then you could add Avatars that do different things and partake in different roles. Of course, intent of design and the details still need to be figured out. >.>;

[Gidonoidon_Sur]

Will be interesting given the current class/job setup and armoury system.

[Molly_Millions]

SMN should come form CON/THM. Lets get some jobs in game that require more than one class leveled.