Updating the Coils of Bahamut

[vetch]

Natsuko and Yoshi-P were worried about this panel because of the mechanics, how the mechanics are "all over the place"

Meaning it's not just the same ten or twelve 'stack this', 'spread this', 'we repainted Limit Cut again' mechanic types ad nauseam? Because the Coils mechanics actually feel diverse, creative, and experimental? Or because they actually cause damage to players that healers get to heal instead of awarding you with 0 damage when you successfully find the safe spot? I'm really curious what they mean by this.

And you don't have to yeet the old fights, just give us a story mode so to speak.

That's... what unsynced does.

You did a fine job reworking old dungeons (for the most part) and are going to be done with that soon.

Hahahahah. This right here is why I don't want them to rework Coils. The dungeon revamps have been 90% downgrades.

Much rather they just update the hint boxes to tell people that unsynced is an option.

It's especially ironic how you cannot play this without having a lvl 90 person carrying you/being level 90 or going in at synced levels for a quest which would best be played right after 2.0, when it comes to the story. And it's very unfair towards all the free trial players who cannot create a party finder and therefore can only queue for it and wait forever.

I did my first coils runs thru DF and it popped in about the same time as it would have taken a PF because a bunch of other free players were doing the same thing.

[Minali]

That's... what unsynced does.

Have you ever actually done it unsynced lately? I did two runs with sprouts from the NN after EW release and you are missing out on literally everything that is supposed to be part of the experience, from small stuff like music or arena transitions in battles to, well, having anything to do besides just walking straight from start to finish in three minutes. In every duty the battle is part of the experience, and coils is no exception. Taking the battle out of the experience entirely or having people who are not into hardcore stuff (which is still a very large number of people, especially in low levels) running into tons of brick walls is a pretty horrible choice.

This is not like any other story mode version of a normal raid like Alex, Omega, Eden and now Panda. Yes, these are not savage unreal ultimate levels of fights, but they are still having you do something. It's not just watching cutscenes, which would be a movie, not a game. In Coils it's all or nothing and there is no good reason for keeping it that way. And as said, they don't have to take out the old stuff for this, just offer an additional mode on the same difficulty level as the normal version of every other normal raid. Apart from this, I didn't say anywhere what mechanics might be problematic, I just said they voiced some concerns about some, no clue which ones they mean. Maybe they would just keep most of it.

Anyway, you are making a lot of assumptions about how absolutely horrible a rework would probably look like from a post that's just "please make this raid accessible".

[Duskane]

Turn 3 is the one that sticks out the most to me its just a hallway jump puzzle could be just a regular instance,
They definitely need a more normal mode variant for newer players,
just keep the ones we have now and label them as Extreme version (because coils already has a savage version)or even call them (Legacy) version.

[VerdeLuck]

Even with the thread necroed, I don't see a reason why it has to be kept at its current difficulty when getting a run is as difficult on-level as it is.

No one is doing consistent min-ilvl runs of this content, no one would really be affected were it to be nerfed and stuck in a roulette so people can do it at level 50 and on the free trial. There's maybe 1 min-ilvl run every 6 months and those people can just suffer if it means letting sprouts actually see the story.

[vetch]

Have you ever actually done it unsynced lately? I did two runs with sprouts from the NN after EW release and you are missing out on literally everything that is supposed to be part of the experience, from small stuff like music or arena transitions in battles to, well, having anything to do besides just walking straight from start to finish in three minutes. In every duty the battle is part of the experience, and coils is no exception.

First tier of Alex Normal would like a word. Moggle Mog trial would like a word. Go queue for Mog normal and tell me that you're experiencing a battle when your ilvl 130 party bulldozes it before half of the new limp-noodle mechanics can even go off. That's reworked content, by the way, and the battle devs completely failed to levelsync and stat it properly.

If you want Coils to have battles to experience, ask them to leave it alone.

Anyway, you are making a lot of assumptions about how absolutely horrible a rework would probably look like from a post that's just "please make this raid accessible".

Yes? I'm allowed to make such assumptions after having seen their dungeon and Mog trial reworks.

Even with the thread necroed, I don't see a reason why it has to be kept at its current difficulty when getting a run is as difficult on-level as it is.

No one is doing consistent min-ilvl runs of this content, no one would really be affected were it to be nerfed and stuck in a roulette so people can do it at level 50 and on the free trial. There's maybe 1 min-ilvl run every 6 months and those people can just suffer if it means letting sprouts actually see the story.

It's absolutely easy to get a Coils together. They pop in DF all the time because sprouts don't know any better than to queue them in DF, they're in PF a bunch, and there are lots of in-game fellowships and discords that run pick-up groups and statics for synced and MINE.

Did you only look on Dynamis before deciding that Coils groups never happen, or did you not look at all?

[VerdeLuck]

It's absolutely easy to get a Coils together. They pop in DF all the time because sprouts don't know any better than to queue them in DF, they're in PF a bunch, and there are lots of in-game fellowships and discords that run pick-up groups and statics for synced and MINE.

Did you only look on Dynamis before deciding that Coils groups never happen, or did you not look at all?

It is in no way easy to get a party together on-level for coils. I tried when I was 50 on the free trial on Primal. Free Trials cannot make PFs and cannot use /tell to ask other players to make one for them. Really all they can do is queue DF and hope someone maybe makes a PF.
This is an absolute lie if you're going to try to present it as being easy for level 50 players to get a coils group together. I've tried when I was at 50 and I gave up after weeks of trying to get a group in DF and being unable to make PFs.
It's so hard that the devs even made a note at fanfest that they regret having story content locked behind it because of that. I eventually gave up and ran through it at 90 but there's no reason you should have to wait until endwalker to have Alisae properly introduced and the conclusion of Louisoix's story.

[ReynTime]

Four months ago I got a full party going for Coils and Second Coils synced in just one day, and I used the party finder for that. We gathered and finished the runs in the same day.
Just because you need to do actual communication instead of clicking join in the DF and then seeing it all play out perfectly doesn't mean it's anywhere near to impossible to do them as is.

[Minali]

Four months ago I got a full party going for Coils and Second Coils synced in just one day, and I used the party finder for that. We gathered and finished the runs in the same day.
Just because you need to do actual communication instead of clicking join in the DF and then seeing it all play out perfectly doesn't mean it's anywhere near to impossible to do them as is.

"I used the party finder for that" is the important point here: Free trial players cannot create a party finder, only join, and they aren't exactly appearing every hour on all datacenters, ready for sprouts to jump in.

[VerdeLuck]

Four months ago I got a full party going for Coils and Second Coils synced in just one day, and I used the party finder for that. We gathered and finished the runs in the same day.
Just because you need to do actual communication instead of clicking join in the DF and then seeing it all play out perfectly doesn't mean it's anywhere near to impossible to do them as is.

Free trial players cannot do "actual communication" the game stops them from sending messages to players and from making PFs. It's a lesson learned long ago that you can't lock story content behind requiring PF and this just needs to be changed to follow that.
It at least needs to be tweaked enough to be put in normal raid roulette.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Free trial players cannot do "actual communication" the game stops them from sending messages to players and from making PFs. It's a lesson learned long ago that you can't lock story content behind requiring PF and this just needs to be changed to follow that.
It at least needs to be tweaked enough to be put in normal raid roulette.

Its almost like its there to encourage you to, gasp, buy the game.