Updating the Coils of Bahamut

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

After how they butchered the two MSQ roulette dungeons, I'd rather they leave coil alone.

Honestly they are improved.
But I know people who hav ebeen here for a while will miss some of the dumb old things they used to have...

I miss in Castrum where we did that extra BS the side where we destroyed the Cylinders. (I forget what its actually called) and I really miss the silly Canons segment. They were silly, but I enjoyed them, and I miss them.
Then in Prae, I miss that it was a near 1 hour chill adventure where I could make dinner and do laundry on the side while the long cutscenes played. Plus it was almost always guaranteed a Full level in Daily roulette. I support it being cut down to 20 minutes give or take, but I will miss being able to do side stuff while running through it hassle free.....plus I miss the massive exp.

[Packetdancer]

I think there is a lot of value in updating Coils to meet today's 8-player content standards.

Coils is a story that's interesting for folks who're new to the game, and is deeply meaningful to any 1.x survivors, as it provides the epilogue and wrap-up for our adventures there; I do agree that making that story more accessible would be beneficial. And for all that I'm happy to sing the praises of groups like my FC's "Retro Raiders" (who run old content synced—bringing folks along to give them the full experience—and who did a full run of Coils on-level some while back, as well as doing a min-ilevel run of Praetorium right before the old 8-person version went poof), I'll agree that as it stands, "accessible" is not a term I'd associate with Coils.

That said. I don't think that revamping Coils directly is entirely feasible.

What I think might be neat is to keep the existing Coils fights—for historical purposes, and to leave it accessible for groups like the Retro Raiders—but to shift the story unlock over to an optional trial series—something akin to the Sorrow of Werlyt storyline in Shadowbringers, or the Four Lords in Stormblood. You don't have the weird dungeon-y fights, but you could take the truly memorable ones—Twintania, Nael, Phoenix, Bahamut, etc.—and make more focused, modern, up-to-date versions of those fights as trials. Once you'd cleared the trials version, you could unlock the original raids (e.g., the fights we have now) if you wanted to poke around in those, but the story would be entirely accessible through the trials series.

[Jeeqbit]

I think there is a lot of value in updating Coils to meet today's 8-player content standards. The scenery in this raid is stunning and new players are always interested in having more to play since the only 8-man content available in ARR are the primals hard mode. Simply put, I think it's a waste to have Coils sitting in the closet collecting dust.

There was a time when nobody did coils synced and just let them collect dust, but now coils are done synced and minimum IL by sprouts sometimes. It's among the most common content to do minimum IL because they are the first raids and you see it in party finder a lot. Blue mages have to clear T5, T9 and T13 for the morbol, achievements and weeklies and nerfing it with telegraphs would take away blue mage content.

If coils were preserved with a (Savage) tag but a normal version was created with telegraphs and casts it would be a fair compromise. The problem is how they could preserve second coil when there is already a savage version that is done much less frequently.

[RyuDragnier]

After how they butchered the two MSQ roulette dungeons, I'd rather they leave coil alone.

Ah yes the compelling mechanic "dodge, dodge again, dodge some more".

Sounds like you guys are a bit upset that the dungeons are no longer as braindead as they once were.

[Sotaris]

I don't think they need to revisist coils. If we could beat it fine in ARR, 8 man groups in 2022 can too. I have very fond memories when downing Twintania and Nael the first time. It was difficult fights and rewarding.

Ah yes the compelling mechanic "dodge, dodge again, dodge some more".

That's unironically 95% of all mechanics in this game.

[Duskane]

I'd say its on the agenda hopefully they rework LoA and Sycrus too

[Jin-]

Coils are how the content should be. Make everything like that instead

[TheMightyMollusk]

What I think might be neat is to keep the existing Coils fights—for historical purposes, and to leave it accessible for groups like the Retro Raiders—but to shift the story unlock over to an optional trial series—something akin to the Sorrow of Werlyt storyline in Shadowbringers, or the Four Lords in Stormblood. You don't have the weird dungeon-y fights, but you could take the truly memorable ones—Twintania, Nael, Phoenix, Bahamut, etc.—and make more focused, modern, up-to-date versions of those fights as trials. Once you'd cleared the trials version, you could unlock the original raids (e.g., the fights we have now) if you wanted to poke around in those, but the story would be entirely accessible through the trials series.

Rebrand the existing Coils as Extreme (so the Second Coils Savage can stay as well) and make a new "Normal" mode, maybe? Maybe include the dungeon-y parts (and Turn Three) as solo duties, so you still get to explore but it doesn't drag on (pun intended. Own your puns, cowards!) in roulette?

[vetch]

Compelling or not, it is better, isn't it? Before hand you didn't really have to pay attention, everything died very quickly. The only difficult part before hand was if you optimized during meridianum and stun skipped the invulns.

I enjoyed stun-skip, and the mass-pull just before it that you blew up with cannons, and I also enjoyed Livia's mech since we were required to do secondary objectives like protecting/operating the missile launchers and trading off responsibilities because she'd aggro the most recent person to shoot her. The concept of the fight was great, even though in execution it was very easy.

Prae is better now, I'll give you that, but that has everything to do with it being half as long and nothing to do with the new fights. They're still conceptually barren and boring.

[Semirhage]

If you want the story experience, just...unsync them? A level 90 tank or healer (or DPS with a little sustain) can solo all of coil with little issue. If you want the coil experience, get a group to do it.

While I'm a fan of the *idea* behind adding engagement to the duller old content, coil isn't dull. And I don't think older raids would improve if the modern Shadowbringers fight templating replaced their original design. Do we need yet another fight where the boss has Generic Raidwide That Comes Once A Minute, or Easily Mitigated Unthreatening Tankbuster? Boss That Teleports To Center And Casts For Ten Seconds? Yet More 8-Person Protean Waves? Okay Guys, For This One We Need Light Parties And Clock Positions?