Are positionals a outdated thing?

[Bsrking5]

Yes
/10 characters

[Broken_Wind]

I don't think they are outdated at all, although it shouldnt be a melee requirement either

I found Monk post greased lightning but pre EW to be the most fun class on controller. It wasnt particularly complex, but it was constant motion and very fluid. I think EW Monk is a major leap backwards in terms of fun, but obviously everyone is different
I think its a great tradeoff to have some classes have less complexity but require more movement.

And I think it does make sense from a class perspective for MNK to be positional based, fist user weaving around opponent to find the best opening

I think it makes sense for NIN to have some rear positionals, but i dont think it makes sense thematically for DRG and SAM

[ty_taurus]

I don't really understand why there can't be 1 dedicated positional job. Obviously a lot of bosses aren't designed with positionals in mind and that throws a wrench into things, but there's nothing wrong with having 1 job like monk dedicate itself to positionals for the players that enjoy it. If you don't like positionals then play literally any other job. That's a thing you can do in this game. We have a really beautiful job system which would really allow for more jobs to have very specific aspects to their gameplay designed for certain players who like those systems, so why aren't we doing more of that?

[Iyrnthota]

On a personal note actually, I was doing some roulettes on my MNK last night with this thread in mind, and I think my biggest current issue with positionals is the lack of positive feedback.

As it stand most of the time I don't actually know that I've hit them or not.

Like, if I 'm standing directly behind the boss and I hit a rear positional button, I know intellectually that I've hit that positional requirement, and have thus increased my damage or what have you. But in terms of actual game feel, there isn't much of a difference between hitting it and missing it. It feels very unsatisfying.

Perhaps there's something I'm missing, but I can't actually tell if I've hit a positional other than:
a) I am very obviously in the right position
b) I use some sort of 3rd party tool and review after the fight

I feel like if the Dev team want to keep positionals around one of the best things they could do is improve the visual/audio feedback for sucessfully hitting one.

[Yeastyloins]

On a personal note actually, I was doing some roulettes on my MNK last night with this thread in mind, and I think my biggest current issue with positionals is the lack of positive feedback.

As it stand most of the time I don't actually know that I've hit them or not.

Like, if I 'm standing directly behind the boss and I hit a rear positional button, I know intellectually that I've hit that positional requirement, and have thus increased my damage or what have you. But in terms of actual game feel, there isn't much of a difference between hitting it and missing it. It feels very unsatisfying.

Perhaps there's something I'm missing, but I can't actually tell if I've hit a positional other than:
a) I am very obviously in the right position
b) I use some sort of 3rd party tool and review after the fight

I feel like if the Dev team want to keep positionals around one of the best things they could do is improve the visual/audio feedback for sucessfully hitting one.

Surprisingly, I've noticed SAM has that in terms of the sound of your ability when you get positionals. It sounds distinct compared to when you fail the positional. I however have not noticed that playing MNK or NIN

[Iyrnthota]

Surprisingly, I've noticed SAM has that in terms of the sound of your ability when you get positionals. It sounds distinct compared to when you fail the positional. I however have not noticed that playing MNK or NIN

Perhaps there is one, but only on StB+ melee jobs. Does RPR have something I wonder?

[RyuDragnier]

Perhaps there is one, but only on StB+ melee jobs. Does RPR have something I wonder?

There is no distinct difference in sounds when you hit a positional, but I do wish there was, or at least something visible on the damage numbers when it happens for all melee DPS. Idk, like a small star or something?

[Schan]

Surprisingly, I've noticed SAM has that in terms of the sound of your ability when you get positionals. It sounds distinct compared to when you fail the positional. I however have not noticed that playing MNK or NIN

I think DRG has it as well but it's BARELY noticeable. i had plans to actually sit down with just sound enabled and compare the sound effects of the skill of when you land vs when you miss positionals.

[Iyrnthota]

I think DRG has it as well but it's BARELY noticeable. i had plans to actually sit down with just sound enabled and compare the sound effects of the skill of when you land vs when you miss positionals.

I had planned the same myself.
Though, that we're struggling to tell if it exists tells me whatever might already there is definitely not enough imo

[Schan]

I think, strictly speaking, if you want a fight to have positionals then it is limiting what you can do with the design.

I finally understood why I wasn't understanding where you were coming from. We are looking at the same problem from different perspectives.

Your premise would be that if positionals have to 100% be a thing then the design has to be limited to allow such a thing.

Mine was if i want to design a fight however i want then positions aren't such a huge consideration or limiter bc there is a choice to disable them.
I was struggling to grasp the point of limitations on design bc my argument is simply... "just design whatever way you want it to be and if it's too much of a pain in the backside then just turn off positionals"

On a personal note actually, I was doing some roulettes on my MNK last night with this thread in mind, and I think my biggest current issue with positionals is the lack of positive feedback.

Fully agree with this and it's the only gripe I have with positionals.

I wish we would get a different sound or something when you land a positional.

I honestly thought that the idea that was applied to DRGs (upgrading their attacks if they landed a positional) would've been great for monks but that would create a bigger gap between skill floor and skill ceiling which is something the devs have made it clear they aren't keen on having in their game.