How to fix Paladin

[Seraphor]

Divine Veil doesn't give you a defense boost as well because that fits the whole image of the PLD being a selfless knight in the first place; protecting and putting others before themself. We already have a bunch of other mitigation tools (Rampart which used to be a GLA skill before it became tank role, Sentinel, Holy Sheltron, Hallowed Ground, Passage of Arms) anyway, so it's not a big deal. I think I can overlook not having another buff for myself on Divine Veil. Quality rather than quantity, and using what you have wisely and effectively is the key.

But that's the thing, it's not Quality over Quantity.

PLD has more mitigation tools than any other tank, but they're all more limited, half don't effect you, and some consume job gauge.

GNB has Heart of Light, one skill, blanket mitigation on yourself and the whole party.

In it's place, PLD has Divine Veil and Passage of Arms, one is an awkward cone AoE that requires channelling and doesn't stack with Sheltron, the other requires an additional GCD cast to activate and doesn't even effect you.
Nothing about that says "Quality over Quantity".
It's a bit more mitigation sure, but the way it's implemented is definitely Quantity over Quality.

[Absurdity]

But that's the thing, it's not Quality over Quantity.

PLD has more mitigation tools than any other tank, but they're all more limited, half don't effect you, and some consume job gauge.

GNB has Heart of Light, one skill, blanket mitigation on yourself and the whole party.

In it's place, PLD has Divine Veil and Passage of Arms, one is an awkward cone AoE that requires channelling and doesn't stack with Sheltron, the other requires an additional GCD cast to activate and doesn't even effect you.
Nothing about that says "Quality over Quantity".
It's a bit more mitigation sure, but the way it's implemented is definitely Quantity over Quality.

It's really just clunk over quality or quantity.

Looking at the SB Paladin skills one could argue for quality over quantity, old Shelltron only worked on a single hit but could give you up to ~35% mitigation instead of the 20% it does now, Sentinel had a longer cooldown but gave you 40% mitigation.
Now Shelltron is just a clunkier version of Bloodwhetting or Heart of Corundum that doesn't work properly on DoTs, critical hits or while stunned, while Sentinel is just like every other 2 minute mitigation.

I certainly don't want more homogenisation, but when an ability is just objectively worse than every other tank's equivalent due to encounter design then you seriously ask yourself why it still exists in that form.

[Undeadfire]

Paladin is honestly a meme tank since this Xpac, it needs severe help.

[Undeadfire]

P8S pushed the lengths with Paladin to a point you're griefing if you try to clear with, Part 1 DPS checks Week 1 are on E8S levels.

[Armandin]

Hopefully if enough memes come out about the DMG discrepancy, SE will notice and fix it.(Intense copium)

[Zarkovitch]

This tier shows how big the gap on dmg. Certain jobs cannot do the dmg require for week 1. Due of it, they going ask for buffs. I don't want to see war does same dmg as gnb or drk. PLD need adjustment to be the same line as other tanks. They need something to be superior. Like other tanks.

TLDR: Devs did a oopsie.

[Rithy255]

The idea of a "support tank" or a more "tanky tank" in trade of a bit of dps sounds good on paper but because with how dps checks are currently, I'm guessing pld/war wasn't tested through the new fights I don't know, they do need both a solid DPS buff outside of the dps check being really hard.
It feels bad, i Wish people could play what class they wanted instead of having to worry if they're going to be a burden to their own raid group.

I know if I was a week 1 player I wouldn't want to play another tank for my first clear, I'd always want to play paladin because its my main and favourite job, from fantasy and gameplay I wouldn't wanna be on something else because "it's meta" but at the same time I'd feel guilty taking in a job that is underperforming, this likely won't be a issue soon, because gear is going to be better and better with each week, but it's still really upsetting to hear, that week one raiders might feel discouraged to take a job because it's not performing well

That being said I don't think "just fix damage lol" is always the best balance, at least I'd like to see a few more adjustments outside of potency buffs. I'd like to some of paladins Tanking kit buffed/tweaked, maybe some rotation adjustments (that don't ruin the jobs complexity too much). Obviously theirs no one solution and any change won't make everyone happy.
I compare it to Dark Knight I really dislike how it plays I dislike the job design and its general defensive kit, but because it performing well right now doesn't make it a "good tank" in my eyes (people are allowed to enjoy DRK ect). I think theirs plenty of issues that aren't just dps focused that shouldn't go ignored or at least i think both should be addressed, right now the output of paladins and warriors come first but in general looking into the tanks as a whole is needed.

[Undeadfire]

The idea of a "support tank" or a more "tanky tank" in trade of a bit of dps sounds good on paper but because with how dps checks are currently, I'm guessing pld/war wasn't tested through the new fights I don't know, they do need both a solid DPS buff outside of the dps check being really hard.
It feels bad, i Wish people could play what class they wanted instead of having to worry if they're going to be a burden to their own raid group.

I know if I was a week 1 player I wouldn't want to play another tank for my first clear, I'd always want to play paladin because its my main and favourite job, from fantasy and gameplay I wouldn't wanna be on something else because "it's meta" but at the same time I'd feel guilty taking in a job that is underperforming, this likely won't be a issue soon, because gear is going to be better and better with each week, but it's still really upsetting to hear, that week one raiders might feel discouraged to take a job because it's not performing well

That being said I don't think "just fix damage lol" is always the best balance, at least I'd like to see a few more adjustments outside of potency buffs. I'd like to some of paladins Tanking kit buffed/tweaked, maybe some rotation adjustments (that don't ruin the jobs complexity too much). Obviously theirs no one solution and any change won't make everyone happy.
I compare it to Dark Knight I really dislike how it plays I dislike the job design and its general defensive kit, but because it performing well right now doesn't make it a "good tank" in my eyes (people are allowed to enjoy DRK ect). I think theirs plenty of issues that aren't just dps focused that shouldn't go ignored or at least i think both should be addressed, right now the output of paladins and warriors come first but in general looking into the tanks as a whole is needed.

Thing is being more tanky for a DPS trade off doesn't work in this game, everything can be planned out with mitigation planning making it effectively useless than being good with a average healer, no raider would ever bring it to Savage/Ultimates. After clearing P8S week one, it isn't just Paladin that is bad for it, there are 4 other jobs really bad for P8S with it's crazy DPS check that you're griefing the team if you're running them.

Paladin can easily have a rotation fix if it's rotation bursts are synced on the 2 min-60s bursts accurately instead of cutting GCDs just to be in sync (Oh wait, that makes it lose DPS). SHBs Paladin was fine for allowing to skip 1 Atonement Or Holy Spirit and remain on par with GNB/DRK. Adding more GCDs and nerfing Atonement to the ground made it terribly awkward to play, the highest potencies is from Holy Spirit/Blades but you have to open FoF for the highest effective DPS, but oh wait it screws the job over from burst windows, and oh wait it can't burst straight to Holy Spirits because it's a DPS loss. Honestly this job is fundamentally broken and close to unplayable for how it works, and it's almost on approach of 2.0 Warrior. It's got the miti but where is this job going to? It's an utter trash mess griefing tank, even Warrior got a correct a buff, adding slightly more potencies isn't going to fix Paladin. GNB/DRK will still trash it to the ground because "They sync to burst windows".

[Rithy255]

My point was trading off being more "tanky" or being a more of a "Support" tank is generally good on paper, not that it's well designed for the game, at least i can see why warrior does less then a dark knight, Although the gap is way too much even now for warrior, I don't agree with the state of DRK if other tanks performed the same (or more). Which would mean reworking that job.

I wouldn't exactly call bringing a sub-optimal job "griefing". Of course bringing a Paladin when no one says you can go paladin is griefing. I don't equal playing what you want when people are fine with it as griefing either way, sure its not optimal or not needed, but generally i think despite meta we should be able to play what we enjoy, obviously in current p8s if your group doesn't want you running a paladin then that's reasonable.

I can somewhat agree that the job is a bit broken right now I'm not even arguing that, the jobs pretty flawed generally the more you try to optimize it the less fun it can be, I don't want a total rework that will change Paladin to be something that plays exactly like warrior or on a similar level, I like that it has two bursts, I think firstly we need to change skillspeed and spell speed to be synched and have a general look at Paladins abilites not just potency changes, of course potency changes are a nice, Paladin needs a lot more, warrior generally needs small potency buffs, I even said paladin likely needs rotation adjustments they need some changes, I also don't think Paladins complexity is a bad thing (having different openers), but fixing a lot of the jank in general might be good even if it does reduce a bit of "complexity" aslong as paladin feels similar and is still fun I wouldn't mind, my fear is making the job fall exactly inline with other tank jobs in rotation. I like that its a bit different.

[Undeadfire]

I wouldn't exactly call bringing a sub-optimal job "griefing". Of course bringing a Paladin when no one says you can go paladin is griefing. I don't equal playing what you want when people are fine with it as griefing either way, sure its not optimal or not needed, but generally i think despite meta we should be able to play what we enjoy, obviously in current p8s if your group doesn't want you running a paladin then that's reasonable.

It isn't about my raid group not wanting it, P8S DPS check is on par with E8S W1 and GNB/DRK make such a massive difference vs bringing a Pld or War, I got forced off Warrior just to make DPS check in the fight. DRK/GNB do 500+ more Raid DPS than what Warrior/Paladin are capable of in that fight, and any raid group clearing Week 1 with Pld or War had meta jobs carrying them, Pld/War together is legitimately impossible to beat it.

The other 4 jobs I mentioned? Rdm, Mch, Rpr, War. Pld and the other 4 are griefing for that fight to clear Week 1, P8S is one of the hardest Savages created in the game. You could even call them meme jobs for W1 clears lol.