How to fix Paladin

[eagledorf]

Based on the buffs Paladin had received since patch 6.0 dropped, it's clear that the developers don't really know what to do with Paladin other than increase potencies. That's nice, but doesn't really address the issue (and also makes Paladin more broken in dungeons each time).

As a long-time tank player, it's really simple what the job needs so I wanted to share my thoughts.

1. When Flight of Fight is used outside of combat, add an effect that reduces cooldown duration by 10 seconds and effect duration by 6 seconds.

Reason: Parties with a Paladin shouldn't have to wait around 20s every pull so the tank can align his rotation. This is especially annoying in Duty Finder. Please implement this change if nothing else.

2. Add a shield for self to Divine Veil.

Reason: Paladin effectively has at least 2 fewer cooldowns than every other tank because Divine Veil has no self-mitigation and Passage doesn't stack with Shelton. Because Sheltron is already very strong, a modest adjustment to Veil is more appropriate than a buff to Passage.

3. Reduce the number of stacks of Sword Oath to 2 Reduce the number of stacks of Requiescat; increase potencies and reduce DoT duration accordingly.

Reason: Paladin is the only job in the game with a rotation that doesn't fit in 2-minute burst windows. Because the casting phase is in the window, most potency increase should go to these skills (Confiteor may need to have damage fall off by after the second target to avoid excessive AoE damage.) Even with the-18s opener, the whole casting phase doesn't fit in 15 buffs so it should be condensed.

4. Reduce the cooldown on Hallowed Ground

Reason: The cooldown on HG being at least 40% longer than other invuls is no longer justified as Walking Dead now provides a substantial self-heal.

These changes are very modest and would not unreasonably buff the job (arguably, only the last suggestion is a meaningful buff at all), but would address almost all the quality of life issues with the class. They also should be quite easy to implement.

[Rithy255]

1) I don't see any problem with that, I find pre pull fight or flight annoying (I generally just don't bother with it in most content). So this could be a general good change imo.

2) I agree fully that divine veil should apply to the paladin, I'll add that i don't think you should need to proc it, it should work basically the same as warriors shake it off.

3) I don't know about this change, I'm a weirdo who kinda likes not using a stack of atonement, but i wouldn't really mind if it was changed. (I know a lot of paladin players find it janky and weird)

4) I agree I think HG should be the longest, but its way too long, I think a good change would be.
Keep Holmgang: 240, Change Bolide to: 270, Keep LD at: 300, Hallowed Ground: 330
This way it's still long compared to holmgang, but has the upside of being the best effect in the game, While this is also buffing gunbreakers invul (which isn't bad but IMO needs to be shorter then current living dead, you can switch either around).

I think also changing things like cover and some small jank around paladin would be good, I'd still want the job to be complicated at the "highest level" and not be dummed down so changes like this would be generally fine, If they went with a overall paladin rework I'd dread honestly.

[Enkidoh]

Your character's level for GLA/PLD is only 37 so you don't have anywhere near your full selection of tools at that stage.

Divine Veil doesn't give you a defense boost as well because that fits the whole image of the PLD being a selfless knight in the first place; protecting and putting others before themself. We already have a bunch of other mitigation tools (Rampart which used to be a GLA skill before it became tank role, Sentinel, Holy Sheltron, Hallowed Ground, Passage of Arms) anyway, so it's not a big deal. I think I can overlook not having another buff for myself on Divine Veil. Quality rather than quantity, and using what you have wisely and effectively is the key.

And before you pass judgement we once were able to crossclass Protect and Stoneskin from CNJ (along with MRD's Foresight) as well on top of that, so we had plenty of other mitigation tools when Divine Veil was added, and still do.

[xAFROx]

Pld has Sheltron on a 6 second cooldown and also passively blocks attacks already thanks to having a shield. I also don't think it needs more mitigation when half its rotation already has self-sustain healing baked into it, either.

Not a pld main, though, so maybe I'm in the minority.

[eagledorf]

If you run Dragonsong Ultimate or some other more difficult endgame contents, Paladin will run out of cooldowns while every other tank will be able to stack multiple due to PLD having 2-3 fewer defensive cooldowns than the other tank jobs.

WAR has a similar issues in that Thrill is relatively weak, but still nowhere near as problematic as Paladin that just doesn't have one to cycle and because Holmgang has such a short cooldown they are able to cycle that in much more freely than Hallowed to compensate.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Based on the buffs Paladin had received since patch 6.0 dropped, it's clear that the developers don't really know what to do with Paladin other than increase potencies. That's nice, but doesn't really address the issue (and also makes Paladin more broken in dungeons each time).

As a long-time tank player, it's really simple what the job needs so I wanted to share my thoughts.

1. When Flight of Fight is used outside of combat, add an effect that reduces cooldown duration by 10 seconds and effect duration by 6 seconds.

Reason: Parties with a Paladin shouldn't have to wait around 20s every pull so the tank can align his rotation. This is especially annoying in Duty Finder. Please implement this change if nothing else.

2. Add a shield for self to Divine Veil.

Reason: Paladin effectively has at least 2 fewer cooldowns than every other tank because Divine Veil has no self-mitigation and Passage doesn't stack with Shelton. Because Sheltron is already very strong, a modest adjustment to Veil is more appropriate than a buff to Passage.

3. Reduce the number of stacks of Sword Oath to 2, increase potencies and reduce DoT duration accordingly.

Reason: Paladin is the only job in the game with a rotation that doesn't fit in 2-minute burst windows. Because the casting phase is in the window, most potency increase should go to these skills (Confiteor may need to have damage fall off by after the second target to avoid excessive AoE damage.)

4. Reduce the cooldown on Hallowed Ground

Reason: The cooldown on HG being at least 40% longer than other invuls is no longer justified as Walking Dead now provides a substantial self-heal.

These changes are very modest and would not unreasonably buff the job (arguably, only the last suggestion is a meaningful buff at all), but would address almost all the quality of life issues with the class. They also should be quite easy to implement.

I would add recommendations to your suggestions if that's okay,

Add to the Divine Magic Mastery Trait at 64 whereby Skill Speed affects the recast of spells as this will also help reduce the drift with the Sword Oath stacks change.

Change Shield Bash into something useful, by removing it's stun, buff it's potency and giving it a 60 second recast GCD to put under Fight or Flight, this with your Sword Oath change would keep the 11 GCD Fight or Flight possible, while keeping the unbuffed phase as it is now where we drop an Atonement anyways. This then repurposes a mostly useless skill all at once. Of course maybe get a trait buffing it's potency further with an animation update too. Prior to Atonement learnt at 76, can start Fight or Flight after Riot Blade in the standard loop and it would allow for it to be used, then after, Fight or Flight can go back to before Riot Blade. Also would negate the need to reduce DoT duration.

This would at a 2.4 GCD keep Paladin's rotation at 60seconds in length, without hopefully disrupting optimisations at higher levels of play.

Otherwise, I 100% agree with everything in your post.

[xAFROx]

Well I can't speak for ultimate as I've never had the chance to go unlock it the fun way. No static and pf groups I make never stick around for more than 30-50 minutes for a quick run or two of whatever I list despite making clear in the comment I'm looking to do something that will take time and a lot of failure.

If that's the only metric worth a grain of thought, I'll just stay quiet.

[ForteNightshade]

Divine Veil doesn't give you a defense boost as well because that fits the whole image of the PLD being a selfless knight in the first place; protecting and putting others before themself. We already have a bunch of other mitigation tools (Rampart which used to be a GLA skill before it became tank role, Sentinel, Holy Sheltron, Hallowed Ground, Passage of Arms) anyway, so it's not a big deal. I think I can overlook not having another buff for myself on Divine Veil. Quality rather than quantity, and using what you have wisely and effectively is the key.

Lore should never trump gameplay. Otherwise, you get nonsense like Living Dead being overwhelmingly the worst invuln in the game for six years because it was the only one that will actually kill you. In fact, the only reason that was finally changed is healers simply weren't healing it—particularly Sage. Furthermore, you mention quality over quantity yet from a functional perspective, Divine Veil is the worst raid wide mitigation and Passage is rarely a gain due to content never being designed around having two of essentially the same thing. Adding to that, Paladin has the weakest personal mitigation. Which is ironic considering it's the only one with a shield.

[ArianeEwah]

1. This only hold true in a set static raid scenario, and there you also have to wait for DNC and/or AST (also BLM, SCH/SGE shield prep etc.) for at least 16s. This is not an issue, and it only adds difficulty in programming and ability effect like *outside of combat* stuff. We already have actions with wall of text that half the community can't even be bothered to read, let alone understand it (yeah, I know that's not really a reason, but still...) don't make everything unnecessary complicated.

2. I can get behind that. I would even argue PLD should be able to trigger it themselves, or it auto-triggers after the duration expires, similar to AST star. For anyone saying that PLD has good mitigation with passive block or strong healing on every rotation repeat: other tanks have more healing options even before 84, AND at least 1 additional CD. Also block doesn't work on crits, which can render Sheltron useless (also stun/down for the count debuff). Getting their own Viel shield is hardly a significant buff. (Shield on dps/heal is roughly the same as Shake, ut weaker on tanks, so there is that, too.)

3. You completely break PLD rotation by doing that. You might not want to use 2 Atonements outside FoF window, but during it you wanna use all 3! PLD has the most flexible dps tools to optimise your rotation and dmg output. By cutting their Sword oath stacks, you also cut their options. There is also the point before getting Atonement; you still use 2 full Royal Authority combos, so you can't change Goring blade too much or you risk breaking PLD on every level! Leaving 1 stack of Sword oath unused is unique, while being a gain on most occasion, just leave it be.
On another note - as aodhan said; by reducing spell GCD recast with SkS/trait, and leaving out 1 Atonement, PLD would come closer to a 60s rotation. Adjust spell recast with SkS on physical jobs (PLD/DRK).

4. I kinda agree with you here, but you are selling Hallowed Ground way too low. In contrast to Walking dead, HG shields you from damage which allows you to cheese or outright ignore certain mechanics. WD cannot do that! Same with Superbolide. I agree it should have a lower CD, as Holmgang still remains supreme even after several recast nerfs (some at SE headquaters apparently thinks putting tank busters timings 4-5 min from each other is just right, so only WAR can cover them)
I suggest a CD reduction of WD to 4:30, SB to 5:00 and HG to 5:30. This way, DRK can cover some tank busters that only WAR is currently capable of, while GNB and PLD might see more invul usages than just "once in a life time".

[eagledorf]

you are selling Hallowed Ground way too low. In contrast to Walking dead, HG shields you from damage which allows you to cheese or outright ignore certain mechanics. WD cannot do that! Same with Superbolide. I agree it should have a lower CD, as Holmgang still remains supreme even after several recast nerfs (some at SE headquaters apparently thinks putting tank busters timings 4-5 min from each other is just right, so only WAR can cover them)
I suggest a CD reduction of WD to 4:30, SB to 5:00 and HG to 5:30. This way, DRK can cover some tank busters that only WAR is currently capable of, while GNB and PLD might see more invul usages than just "once in a life time".

So if you look at the current Ex trial as one example (of many), every other tank can ignore the stack tank buster by invulning both. Paladin is the only tank that can't cheese mechanics with invuln, it's PLD that's unique more so than WAR. This carries across every encounter to some degree or the other since 6.0 dropped. Dragonsong Ultimate PLD is there only job that can't invuln in DRK Thordan and have it back for Cauterize, Pandemonium savage PLD is the only job that only gets one invuln for a buster in every turn, etc.

I do agree with you the real problem is the other invuls and Holmgang are also broken. IMO you should have to actually do mechanics and invuln should be for emergencies, not Holmgang every second tank mechanic. If you want tanks to actually have things to do, Holmgang should be about 5 minutes and Hallowed stay at around 7. I doubt SE will fix that though, so the only way remaining to balance the tanks is reduce Hallowed to around 5 minutes so it can cheese everything too.

Regarding adjusting no. 3, with enough potency increase it really doesn't break anything, it just means you always use 2 attonement instead of 3-2. It also means PLD players can finally aim for zero skill speed since it doesn't work on the whole casting combo (I guess an alternative for that is to make skill speed actually work on PLD like somebody else suggested). There are other adjustments that could be done instead, the casting phase could be reduced, this has the advantage of BoV fitting inside shorter party buffs like Battle Litany so in that sense it's a better option than cutting Sword Oath.

PLD definitely doesn't have the most flexible rotation at all, any loss of uptime or missed skill is devastating because the rotation is so rigid you'll miss the next party buff burst window unless you just drop skills from the rotation to press FoF exactly on time.