SAM is dead

[Deo14]

I'm not a SAM main...nor to I play it optimally.

I understand the community being upset about SAM, but I can only sympathize.

I can't empathize as I was in a sinking boat for years as MNK, until the dev team actually played MNK and said "Wow....this sucks!". It took a long time to have those voices heard.

Soooooo.... once SAM has had nearly 8 years of being let down like the MNK community....THEN I might show some empathy.

What the actual fuck is this shizo rant about?. SAMs deserve it, simply because similar thing happened monks? That's same logic as "I was abused by my parents, therefore my kids deserve to be abused too".
And once again, it's not just about Kaiten, Kaiten it's just the biggest outlier. If you would read few SAM threads instead of voicing your uneducated opinion, you would know.

[ThorneDynasty]

There are pages and pages of people detailing why they feel Kaiten removal was a change that reduced the experience, with an overwhelming majority. Dismissing all their points with with "fun is subjective" or "who can say" platitudes is vapid.

[Tetsujin]

Fun is subjective, may be subjective, but the class is objectively in worse shape without Kaiten and cone-shaped Tenka Goten.

[SieyaM]

Like again, or still dead from the Kaiten removal?

[Mithron]

I am not a SAM main whatsoever, I just enjoyed it since Stormblood and play it as a fan of the job sometimes. Using Kaiten just before my big hits felt oh-so-satisfying and really added to the identity for the job for me. I actually liked Dark Arts in HW as well, hated it in SB, and enjoy the new SHB/EW DRK. I never felt like Kaiten (or even Eukrasia) was the same as Dark Arts. All three buttons felt unique and had different applications for use, adding further to job identity.

I imagine having a guaranteed crit on SAM's biggest hitter with Kaiten would've only made it felt even better. If enough people continue leaving feedback, hopefully SE will re-add it back.

[xAFROx]

I am not a SAM main whatsoever, I just enjoyed it since Stormblood and play it as a fan of the job sometimes. Using Kaiten just before my big hits felt oh-so-satisfying and really added to the identity for the job for me. I actually liked Dark Arts in HW as well, hated it in SB, and enjoy the new SHB/EW DRK. I never felt like Kaiten (or even Eukrasia) was the same as Dark Arts. All three buttons felt unique and had different applications for use, adding further to job identity.

I imagine having a guaranteed crit on SAM's biggest hitter with Kaiten would've only made it felt even better. If enough people continue leaving feedback, hopefully SE will re-add it back.

Hard to say. Apparently, all our feedback amounted to was a pittance of potency increase to our aoe without adjusting them in a way that makes it worth using. But I guess if the intended way to do dungeons is to die trying to attack the enemies, then I guess I can try that when next I log on.

Tenka goken is still a circle for some unholy reason. They didn't even give it the auto-crit treatment that midare and ogi received to at least make it make sense to use for the power of it.

I'm really curious where they decided to pull their feedback from if this was all they did for sam 6.2

[Theodric_Thorne]

Tried SAM on a target dummy earlier. Is it just me or did the crit/d-hit changes not help at all? It sounded good on paper but we're still not putting out the huge spikes of damage that we used to. Hitting Midare for double the damage of the last step of one of my Sen combos doesn't feel great. Even worse when one of those combos ends on a crit or d-hit.

Guess I'm a DRG main now. It's fun, but I miss my katana. DRG also feels terrible to play if I get synced below level 62. I'm 74 now and it's just starting to feel like it has a complete kit for ST and AoE rotations. I have no idea why they gave the job so much AoE but back-loaded it into the last 25-30 levels. SAM doesn't have this problem, it feels like a complete job at 50 right out of the box. And you actually use your Sen gauge. Dragoons don't start using their first job gauge until level 70. SAM starts using its second job gauge at level 52! DRG doesn't get Stardiver until 80, and the second half of their job gauge is added at level 90. Why is this considered good job progression?!

If SE hadn't destroyed the beauty that was 6.08 SAM, I wouldn't even be considering going back to WoW in a couple months. Ret paladin just looks like it's going to be way more fun to play in Dragonflight than DRG or SAM are right now. DRG is great, but when you spend a significant portion of your time in down-synced content for roulettes, it feels awful to have so much of your kit missing.

[Jaquan]

snip

The changes made to Midare, Oni and AoE Iaijutsu won't be apparent when playing solo as your crit stat does and always did affect both chances of crit and the damage dealt. The change however gives Samurai back the Synergy with classes that grant their party Crit Rate buffs (as those affected only odds of getting a crit and not damage) as now their Auto Crit skills deals extra damage when under those buffs.

[Theodric_Thorne]

The changes made to Midare, Oni and AoE Iaijutsu won't be apparent when playing solo as your crit stat does and always did affect both chances of crit and the damage dealt. The change however gives Samurai back the Synergy with classes that grant their party Crit Rate buffs (as those affected only odds of getting a crit and not damage) as now their Auto Crit skills deals extra damage when under those buffs.

Tenka Goken is not an auto-crit, neither is the Kaeshi version of it. Ogi Namikiri and Midare (along with their Kaeshi counterparts) are the only guaranteed crit abilities for SAM.

Also, quoting directly from the patch notes: "When under an effect that increases the chance to land a critical hit or direct hit, actions that are guaranteed to land a critical hit or direct hit will now deal increased damage. When executing actions that are guaranteed to land a critical hit or direct hit, they will now deal increased damage based on the direct hit rate and critical hit rate attributes."

Guaranteed critical hit abilities did not always derive additional damage from these stats, this was a change added in 6.2. So we should notice some kind of difference whether we're practicing on a dummy or in a party with external crit buffs. But Midare still hits like a wet noodle compared to how it was before Kaiten got axed. I don't really care whether SAM is topping DPS charts relative to other jobs because I don't look at them, I only look at my own numbers and see that SAM used to have amazing spikes of damage that made these big abilities feel like they were worth the time they took to build up to. And now it doesn't.

[Mithron]

Tenka Goken is not an auto-crit, neither is the Kaeshi version of it. Ogi Namikiri and Midare (along with their Kaeshi counterparts) are the only guaranteed crit abilities for SAM.

Also, quoting directly from the patch notes: "When under an effect that increases the chance to land a critical hit or direct hit, actions that are guaranteed to land a critical hit or direct hit will now deal increased damage. When executing actions that are guaranteed to land a critical hit or direct hit, they will now deal increased damage based on the direct hit rate and critical hit rate attributes."

Guaranteed critical hit abilities did not always derive additional damage from these stats, this was a change added in 6.2. So we should notice some kind of difference whether we're practicing on a dummy or in a party with external crit buffs. But Midare still hits like a wet noodle compared to how it was before Kaiten got axed. I don't really care whether SAM is topping DPS charts relative to other jobs because I don't look at them, I only look at my own numbers and see that SAM used to have amazing spikes of damage that made these big abilities feel like they were worth the time they took to build up to. And now it doesn't.

So essentially SAM got nerfed when not paired with jobs like BRD or SCH that increase crit or DH. Just like BRD and MCH/DRG had to always be paired together in the past for piercing debuff, or tanks with WAR/NIN for slashing debuff.