SAM is dead

[RyuuZero]

Okay let me prephrase this as this is not an attack, just a response and commentary:

So do you mean to tell me that at level 80, you just never use up your Meditation stacks and overcap them during dungeon pulls?

of course I used Shoha in trashmobs at lvl80, doesn't mean that I like it, but I knew that we get a AoE Shoha in 6.0

In the event that it upgrades, it wouldn't be a single target, and then when you regain the ability to use it again in that instance, it can be used on a single target boss.

just like Geirskogul, if you hate Shoha so much, why don't you use Shoha II instead?

It eliminates clutter without altering the flow of gameplay, nor would we lose anything from it when the choice you keep talking about is literally a situation between a and b, but they do the same thing, use the same resource.

that's what I'm talking about, Samurai have the Freedom to be optimal for both situation, if you get rid of one skill, you religate the entire resource to a sole situation and for Dragoon that's fine, not for a Samurai.

If ffxiv were designed differently, I would be trying to explain why so many people have made the same few suggestions to you. But due to the way the game is, there really is no reason for it to exist.

You want to turn everyjob into a Dragoon? I mean.. that sounds you're happy that everything gets funneled into 2mins, which I also am not a fan of.

Times where an actual choice between the two redundant skills in a given moment do not exist.

uh, it does exist, trashmobs and bosses, what you're suggesting that we should do the same thing all the time and.. no sorry I disagree with that

(Part 1/3)

[RyuuZero]

You really aren't getting the argument everyone is making. I get what you mean. I do. And having an aoe variant of a resource is fine.

Yes, because I see the flaws of those arguements and which is why I oppose them and explain the consquences (mainly that Dragoon already does what they're suggesting)

But literally every skill we keep getting is an aoe, and then, because we keep using it in boss fights, we're given a single target variant instead of something actually new.

Ehm.. well in Endwalker, yes but Shadowbringers we got more single target skills, and the same will hold true for 7.0 but variety is something new. let's talk about this a bit further, what's better? 100 resources that offer 1 Skill each, or 50 resources that offer 2 Skills to account for both situations? I just explained the difference between Dragoon and Samurai.

They share a cooldown. They cost the same. By that logic, if the need to have them both exist really matters so much, they should technically be obtained at the same level.

You just pointed out the oddity of FFXIV's Samurai.. but I have the feeling it's on purpose that each expansion leaves the Samurai in someway incomplete.

But they aren't. That level it was obtained at, could have easily been a trait for an upgrade while we gain something actually new and unique to add to the kit, rather than "here's guren but for boss fights, and shoha but for dungeons."

Sorry again but that's Dragoon Talk, each expansion added a new resource to Samurai but left it incomplete with only 1 skill to spend it on, Stormblood it was a 50 Kenki 2min Line AoE Buster (which got completed in Shadowbringers with Senei), Shadowbringers was Meditation Stacks and a Single Target Spender (which got completed in Endwalker with Shoha II) and Endwalker added The Ogi Trigger to Ikishoten with the Cone AoE Ogi Namikiri, that's what happened, now with Ogi Namikiri being an AoE Spender for the Ogi Trigger whyy don't we get a Single Target Spender?, where I say: 7.0! because it's always been that way.

They could be upgraded to have both ranges of effect and nothing would be truly lost.

have you ever hit a monster you shouldn't hit in PotD/HoH Content? One Geirskogul in the wrong direction and you wipe.
For Samurai that's a bit harder, because have so much options, by just upgrading single target into AoE you automaticly get rid of that nuance, which is what I'm against in regards of Samurai.


(Part 2/3)

[RyuuZero]

And I call it an obsession because every thread, the moment anyone so much as breathes towards the idea of cleaning up the bar while maintaining all our current resources you make a huge post about how that just makes it Dragoon, which it wouldn't.

This is why we lost Kaiten! They cleaned up that Skill that had no Equal in order to streamline everything and no one is happy, even worse they desperately try to find any other solutions in order to bring Kaiten back, meanwhile 6.08 Samurai was just fine, but no! Senei is bullshit because it's same thing as Guren, Guren is bullshit because it's the same thing as Senei, Shoha 1 & 2 should be combined and I sit infront of Geirskogul:
Delivers an attack to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 260 for the first enemy, and 30% less for all remaining enemies.
and then I look at Guren:
Delivers an attack to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 500 for the first enemy, and 25% less for all remaining enemies.

and you want to tell me that it isn't the same Skill? outside of Potencies, fall off and cool down, the biggest difference of Guren is that we Samurai have is Senei as alternative for the Single Target Situation!
Something that the Dragoon doesn't have, yet something so many Players want to take away...

I honestly hope in the next xpac we don't get a Single variant of namikiri.

prepare for disappointment.

But I'm about 95% sure that's what will happen because that's what they've done every xpac since.

You see the pattern aswell, don't deny it, embrace it and hope that they bring back Kaiten!

The redundancy of the kit is just annoying at times.

It's redundant if you disregard the importance of Situations.. again, something Dragoons likely do

No other job has a button that is purely situational beyond their basic aoe combo.

That's what I love about Samurai aswell, we are prepared for both situations.

Most other jobs have at most, 1 or 2 buttons that never get used in a good portion of content, because there is no aoe in that content. But sam has 3, and by the likelihood of your preference, it'll have 4 in another couple years.

?.. No not really, I for example to not know what we get at lvl100^^ though I can think of a buffed up version of Shoha & Shoha II

(Part 3/3)

I had quite fun responding to this.. even if it's lengthy, again, no hate, I just want to make things clear^^

[RyuuZero]

Can you at least make the slightest effort to actually reply to my points?
Gurren was the big Kenki spender in SB, it serverd the same purpose as Senei. It's absolutely the same, except we now have two buttons and a nerfed Gurren.
Gurren is not Geirskogul. The latter is almost always used on CD and serves a very different purpose : entering life of the dragon. Before that it was wa spender that would reduce your Blood of the Dragon timer.

They could simply revert Gurren to its original state, that would not make Sam a dragoon.

Your only argument is that "it's an attack in a line", which is extremely weak.

And all this non sense to say what ? "Noo I don't like your proposed Sam changes to address the buitton bloat". Change your tune a bit, it's completely off.

Is it though? the Kenki Spender Arguement while true can be disregarded through Ikishoten.. in my opinion, since Ikishoten and Guren share the 2minute cool down
practically you have no Kenki, you press Ikishoten and follow up with Guren (or Senei, in single Target Situations)

the "Devlievers an attack.."-Texts aren't an arguement, they are copied texts from the Job Guide ^^

you guys are just flailing around without having a firm understanding of what your suggested change have for consequences to the Feel of the Job, You loved Samurai before 6.1, right? So do I, but again Kaiten wasn't the only thing that gave the Samurai it's Identity. Your Suggestions of merging skills other is in my opinion concerning, since I look at other Jobs (mainly Dragoon) and see what you're suggesting.. of course I ask "So you want it to be like Dragoon?", and as a Samurai Player of course I oppose this stance.

[Deithwen]

Is it though? the Kenki Spender Arguement while true can be disregarded through Ikishoten.. in my opinion, since Ikishoten and Guren share the 2minute cool down
practically you have no Kenki, you press Ikishoten and follow up with Guren (or Senei, in single Target Situations)

the "Devlievers an attack.."-Texts aren't an arguement, they are copied texts from the Job Guide ^^

you guys are just flailing around without having a firm understanding of what your suggested change have for consequences to the Feel of the Job, You loved Samurai before 6.1, right? So do I, but again Kaiten wasn't the only thing that gave the Samurai it's Identity. Your Suggestions of merging skills other is in my opinion concerning, since I look at other Jobs (mainly Dragoon) and see what you're suggesting.. of course I ask "So you want it to be like Dragoon?", and as a Samurai Player of course I oppose this stance.

Then you argue that Samurai was like dragoon in SB ?

[Mithron]

I'm gonna' be honest, there's only a few skills in the game I actually like having multiple options for when it comes to single target or AoE, those being what belongs on tanks. So, Holy Spirit/Holy Circle, Edge/Flood of Shadow, Bloodspiller/Quietus, Fell Cleave/Decimate, and Burst Strike/Fated Circle. I don't actually like Upheaval vs. Orogeny and think they should be combined. This is a case by case basis.

I think Shoha and Shoha II should be combined. It doesn't really feel good choosing one or the other. I kind've think the same with Guren; it doesn't really feel good pressing it over Senei. It's bland. I guess it's because you unlock them at vastly different levels so you were always using the first before because it was the only option; in the case of the tanks, you unlocked these skills right next to each other so it always felt natural, usually even before level 50, except for Orogeny, which is in 80+ so that's probably why it feels bad.

But I'm not a SAM main and that's just my thoughts and feelings on it. Always pressing one button in one expansion then having to press a second strictly for AoE but never in single target doesn't feel good. Always having the option between the two once one of them is unlocked helps it feel a lot better, otherwise upgrade the skill to have AoE and damage fall off instead.

[xAFROx]

@RyuuZero
Really funny that your post shows so much anger in the way you're responding despite trying to preface it with "this is not an attack." Before you literally take every part of my commentary apart with whining. You have an opinion.. yes. We get that.

You claim our opinion for change, at least to address the various stated reasons for our kit being flattened, is flawed. But your only solutions is to add more clutter.

No, I don't 'hate' shoha. I'm saying that it and shoha 2 are REDUNDANT. There is no difference in 'choosing' one or the other. And they share a cooldown timer, meaning no matter what, both are always available at the exact same time.

I haven't touched drg since getting it to cap in ShB because it isn't my priority.

And you're right, though. Kaiten wasn't the only thing wrong with the 6.1 change. If you paid attention to literally any other thread talking about it as a whole, rather than having a seizure every time someone tries to bargain with the changes made, you'd know that.

Our aoe situation is crap because of tenka goken, but they only balance towards endgame raiding these days, right? So who cares about that. Potency boost, cool. Not even what folks were discussing before 6.2

Kenki generation and costs are nonexistent due to the addition of ikishoten and the change made to positionals. Third Eye is almost not worth bothering to weave anymore.

Is there any topic you can discuss about SAM without devolving to the attitude you've used in every thread about comparing it to drg?

[RyuuZero]

Then you argue that Samurai was like dragoon in SB ?

xDD no, though.. I'd say SB was still Honeymoon for Samurai and it felt good to play (even though I disliked the Notion of Hagakure over Midare), I'd say they were similar skills and back then I didn't predict Senei and we didn't know the direction Samurai will take in regards of Skill additions, after Shadowbringers it becomes more clear^^
but I can't really remember how DRG played in SB..
I'll admit I'd had good laugh with that question^^

[Deithwen]

Is it though? the Kenki Spender Arguement while true can be disregarded through Ikishoten.. in my opinion, since Ikishoten and Guren share the 2minute cool down
practically you have no Kenki, you press Ikishoten and follow up with Guren (or Senei, in single Target Situations)

the "Devlievers an attack.."-Texts aren't an arguement, they are copied texts from the Job Guide ^^

you guys are just flailing around without having a firm understanding of what your suggested change have for consequences to the Feel of the Job, You loved Samurai before 6.1, right? So do I, but again Kaiten wasn't the only thing that gave the Samurai it's Identity. Your Suggestions of merging skills other is in my opinion concerning, since I look at other Jobs (mainly Dragoon) and see what you're suggesting.. of course I ask "So you want it to be like Dragoon?", and as a Samurai Player of course I oppose this stance.

Also being called out for not having a firm grasp of a job I mained for years since its released and pushed to the max is quite rich coming from you. What are your credentials in the game to say such things ?

[Deithwen]

xDD no, though.. I'd say SB was still Honeymoon for Samurai and it felt good to play (even though I disliked the Notion of Hagakure over Midare), I'd say they were similar skills and back then I didn't predict Senei and we didn't know the direction Samurai will take in regards of Skill additions, after Shadowbringers it becomes more clear^^
but I can't really remember how DRG played in SB..
I'll admit I'd had good laugh with that question^^

Then how reverting Gurren to what it was will make Sam be like Dragoon then ?
Also it was not a question, but merely a remark. It is quite clear your stance is very bold to hold, because it's not grounded.