SAM is dead

[Ruminous]

Honestly I'm not even sure if they check the forums for feedback. There isn't a forum dedicated to giving in game feedback and this forum doesn't seem like the proper place for feedback either, but I could be wrong.

They look at the forums as a joke, I'm sure. Or to feel better when they got the white knights defending them. I don't know, I'm speculating on that one.

Not everyone offers good opinions or thoughts (Definitely not me) but that's the nature of things. You do need to dig and look for those things that are worth listening to or reading.

[CelestiCer]

There's a sense of compiled Irony in the 6.2 changes.

With Kaiten's removal, DPS execution is made easier. Now you can Fk up Kaiten endlessly if there's no Kaiten to be cast. ( Larryzaur video reference. ) Now with the new Crit/D.Hit changes? it means this appeals to players who will love Raid Buff alignment for slightly more damage in search of what they used to experience before 6.1 changes. Casual Samurai's and Casual players who play Jobs with Raidbuff's will not care nor know how to fully optimize this. So who these changes are appealing to is frustratingly confusing...

Then again there's no " Not Accepting Free Damage " when SE throws it at our faces. It's not how many requested it to be done cause it's still more braindead then Kaiten? and our PvE damage without Raidbuffs is still flaccid. It's probably great in performances, but really bland and boring due to Auto-Crits.

Will we be top DPS? I still don't care... I just cared about how our DPS is achieved, and it is still hollow and thoughtless it's soulless. But we'll take it extra damage, can't say no anyways to it. It's Yoshi's world.

[Nizzi]

Honestly I'm not even sure if they check the forums for feedback. There isn't a forum dedicated to giving in game feedback and this forum doesn't seem like the proper place for feedback either, but I could be wrong.

The annoying part is that when you go to the Support Desk in game - the ONLY way you can contact anyone who works on the game inside of the game - it directly tells you to come to the forums for suggestions and feedback regarding the game itself since the support desk is meant for feedback on GMs. So basically, this is a forum dedicated to feedback, it's the only official method of giving feedback, and yet it feels like they ignore literally everything on it and have opted to get their feedback from some random, unnamed source that nobody has any clue what it actually is. Great stuff!

[RyuuZero]

ugh.. again~ Shoha 1 and Shoha 2 are seperate because one is for single target and the other for AoE, same with Senei and Guren, aswell as the upcoming Single Target Ogi in 7.0, merging those type of attacks only turns the Samurai into a Dragoon with a Katana, since the Dragoon doesn't give a crap for such situations which the Samurai does! Yeah Dragoon also has AoE and Single Target Combos but Geirskogul and Nastrond only show the real nature of the Dragoon not taking these Situations as serious as the Samurai do.

A better suggestion to 'address' button bloat would be to roll up Tsubamegaeshi into Iaijutsu, since Tsubamegaeshi doesn't contribute to meditaion anymore it's just a "Do your previous Iaijutsu..AGAIN " .. that could be put on one button.

and of course Kaiten has to return, or else Samurai may remain requiring no brain to play, which is sad.

[CienFleur]

Oh no, another unqualified comment.

Unqualified... Comment? What Does That Even Mean?

Oh & I'm Not The One Who Is Crying Over A Minor Inconvenience Like A Skill In A Video Game Being Removed?
"Oh Nooo... My Damage Numbers Became Low" "I Can't Go On Living Now That That Skill Is Removed & My DPS Is Small"

People Are Dying Out There, Starving & In A Much Worse Situation Than Yours... While You & Many People Out There Are Worried About A Skill In A Game?
Really? Maybe Something To Think About?

[Deithwen]

Unqualified... Comment? What Does That Even Mean?

Oh & I'm Not The One Who Is Crying Over A Minor Inconvenience Like A Skill In A Video Game Being Removed?
"Oh Nooo... My Damage Numbers Became Low" "I Can't Go On Living Now That That Skill Is Removed & My DPS Is Small"

People Are Dying Out There, Starving & In A Much Worse Situation Than Yours... While You & Many People Out There Are Worried About A Skill In A Game?
Really? Maybe Something To Think About?

The "people have it worse than you out there" argument. So we can't complain about anything unless we are starving or dying?
I'll go ahead and tell you to apply what you preach to yourself. Go away and stop complaining about us providing feedbak that Yoshi P asked for.

[Ransu]

ugh.. again~ Shoha 1 and Shoha 2 are seperate because one is for single target and the other for AoE, same with Senei and Guren, aswell as the upcoming Single Target Ogi in 7.0, merging those type of attacks only turns the Samurai into a Dragoon with a Katana, since the Dragoon doesn't give a crap for such situations which the Samurai does! Yeah Dragoon also has AoE and Single Target Combos but Geirskogul and Nastrond only show the real nature of the Dragoon not taking these Situations as serious as the Samurai do.

A better suggestion to 'address' button bloat would be to roll up Tsubamegaeshi into Iaijutsu, since Tsubamegaeshi doesn't contribute to meditaion anymore it's just a "Do your previous Iaijutsu..AGAIN " .. that could be put on one button.

and of course Kaiten has to return, or else Samurai may remain requiring no brain to play, which is sad.

But why? Both Guren and Ogi Namakiri have mechanics built into them that hit hard on the first target and do less damage for every other target it hits. The mechanic is there. Why do we need a different ability for "aoe" on these specific skills? I'm not against having aoe rotation skills, but Shoha II could literally act exactly like Ogi (ESPECIALLY since Shoha II literally has the exact same animation as Shoha I. I can barely see the differences) and Guren could easily just be removed and place its aoe effect onto Senei which already has a frontal cone looking animation to it anyways (it also just looks way cooler than Guren). If we were to get a single target Ogi in 7.0 I'd literally scream. The skill is perfectly fine the way it is right now. Large potency on the first hit and reduced damage on each enemy hit after the first. We don't need that move to be split into two different skills.

Also, people make the suggestions for shoha and guren because changing those skills make sense. Rolling Gaeshi into the Iaijutsu button however does not make sense because iaijutsu is multiple skills. Last thing I'd want is to accidentally hit Kaeshi: Higanbana. Also, merging Ogi into ishikoten would make sense because you can't even use Ogi without ishikoten. Why that move got its own button is beyond me. I know the live letter specifically said "action bloat" which means they wanted to clearly reduce the APM (they failed on that front) but if we really want to address the "button bloat" there are several ways they could do so easily without ruining the job.

[Darkpaw]

So…. This is what has come to replace the constant “give us back scourge” remarks of the DRKs… so for the next 6 years each patch will be “give us Kaiten back”….

Huh… neat.

[Memoranda]

I don't really play SAM myself, but I've always felt that folks were salty over the removal of Kaiten because the animation is now gone. I feel like they need to find a way to add that animation back and folks would be happier.

That said, as someone who's played Warcraft for years, even long before the mass WoW Exodus, having an ability that you press before every big weaponskill to increase its damage (or potency, whatever) is bad game design in every sense of the phrase. I don't care how hard you try, you're not going to successfully argue this fact. It just is. Ultimately I don't play SAM enough to determine whether or not they increased potencies enough to offset Kaiten's removal, but I would wager that its removal is going to lead towards better game design in the future, regardless of what every other player personally believes.

[Deo14]

I don't really play SAM myself, but I've always felt that folks were salty over the removal of Kaiten because the animation is now gone. I feel like they need to find a way to add that animation back and folks would be happier.

That said, as someone who's played Warcraft for years, even long before the mass WoW Exodus, having an ability that you press before every big weaponskill to increase its damage (or potency, whatever) is bad game design in every sense of the phrase. I don't care how hard you try, you're not going to successfully argue this fact. It just is. Ultimately I don't play SAM enough to determine whether or not they increased potencies enough to offset Kaiten's removal, but I would wager that its removal is going to lead towards better game design in the future, regardless of what every other player personally believes.

Having gauge that you use only for one ability is much, much worse design (I don't count movement skills, since they're situational and cost just 10 kenki + you use Senei always after Ikishoten). Especially if said gauge was made with Kaiten with mind, but they didn't adjust kenki generation/or give another way to spend extra kenki after they removed it. Also, I've played a little bit of WoW long time ago, but doesn't it have GCDs only? I could see Kaiten-like abilities being bad there, but here it's oGCD, so it doesn't really interfere with anything.

And yes, they increased potencies to adjust its removal, obviously. Problem is, they put more potency in basic GCDs and nerfed all the big attacks. Which, you know, is straight up contradictory to the core SAM design. Having cast times for Iaijutus is unjustified now, since they deal maybe like 2-3 times more damage than regular GCDs. Considering the amount of negative feedback even after 4 months, both in JP and EN communities, it's really foolish to try to claim that changes were in any shape or form good.