SAM is dead

[Kazamaiya]

it wasn't great design and people losing their minds over it being gone are massively over-reacting and have bene since it was removed.

While Kaiten might not have been the best designed thing out there, the point is that people like Kaiten because of how it feels. Kaiten didn't subtract anything from the casual experience and just added more to Samurai. so why did it have to be taken away? who were these changes for?
People already knew they didn't like the change from the announcement of it and were told to provide feedback

people have provided the feedback the devs requested, and we still don't know why it was removed. Button bloat wasn't true, and the other reason that it made planning for the future difficult also just brings up the question of 'why now?'

when the changes to a class are already disliked from the announcement, and then they go through with a purely subtractive change, especially to people that go out of their way to do high end content, learn the in's and out's of a job. people are going to react strongly. Even more so when their feedback gets ignored for almost half a year, how do you expect people to react?

[Ransu]

Kaiten wasn't a good button, but it did have a cool animation and big number fun.

While I miss the animation, it wasn't great design and people losing their minds over it being gone are massively over-reacting and have been since it was removed.

You're right, it wasn't a good button, it was a great button and it was an extremely good design that paired well with a melee having casted skills that used to hit like a truck. The only people that think it wasn't a good button never played the job correctly to begin with.

Y'all are so dramatic on these forums. And I thought the WoW community was bad for the amount of doom saying and crying they would do.

Geez, get over it. Move on with your life. Either learn to live with change, or find a different job that you'll enjoy more.

You're adults; stop throwing hissy fits and temper tantrums because something didn't go your way.

Do you act like this in your real life too?

I have moved on to playing BLM this tier, but it doesn't mean I'm going to stop showing my grievances about my favorite job being completely destroyed.

[Saimeren]

Y'all are so dramatic on these forums. And I thought the WoW community was bad for the amount of doom saying and crying they would do.

Geez, get over it. Move on with your life. Either learn to live with change, or find a different job that you'll enjoy more.

You're adults; stop throwing hissy fits and temper tantrums because something didn't go your way.

Do you act like this in your real life too?

[Darkpaw]

The funny thing is hearing over and over “why isn’t SE listening to our feedback” like this is the first time in the game’s history the devs haven’t listened to westerner feedback about a job.

Mch’s have been screaming to end ping reliance on their job since heavensward. Drks screamed for scourge to return for years and years (seriously the amount of give back scourge threads were ludicrous), ast’s about their card systems..

Chances are Kaiten will never come back, which lets be honest. You don’t miss the skill you miss the big number the skill provided. I dont really care about Kaiten as a skill but there does need to be alternative uses for kenki other than shinten and kyuten.

There does need to be a better impact of the Iai skills to make them feel like the big number they should be.

Ultimately is samurai dead? No. It’s not. See several of them running around daily and am actually enjoying leveling it myself however i do notice the absence of kaiten and can see there are still flaws that need to be… tweaked. But screaming dead job is disingenuous . There are jobs in this game in far worse shape than samurai.

[Mithron]

Mch’s have been screaming to end ping reliance on their job since heavensward. Drks screamed for scourge to return for years and years (seriously the amount of give back scourge threads were ludicrous), ast’s about their card systems..

Chances are Kaiten will never come back, which lets be honest. You don’t miss the skill you miss the big number the skill provided. I dont really care about Kaiten as a skill but there does need to be alternative uses for kenki other than shinten and kyuten.

MCH should have charges like Inner Release/Bunshin/Bloodweapon/Delirium. Doesn't make sense why it doesn't. As a DRK I still want Scourge back because it felt good to use, I'd gladly trade Salted Earth for it. I do much prefer old AST cards, AST just has never felt fun since they were reworked.

I miss Kaiten for the button, the animation and the playstyle. The big number is irrelevant to me, I just want the act of pressing Kaiten, seeing the animation, planning my gauge around it, and then hitting my big hitters. That is the quintessential job fantasy of SAM for me, it's what defines it.

[SieyaM]

The funny thing is hearing over and over “why isn’t SE listening to our feedback” like this is the first time in the game’s history the devs haven’t listened to westerner feedback about a job.

Mch’s have been screaming to end ping reliance on their job since heavensward. Drks screamed for scourge to return for years and years (seriously the amount of give back scourge threads were ludicrous), ast’s about their card systems..

Chances are Kaiten will never come back, which lets be honest. You don’t miss the skill you miss the big number the skill provided. I dont really care about Kaiten as a skill but there does need to be alternative uses for kenki other than shinten and kyuten.

There does need to be a better impact of the Iai skills to make them feel like the big number they should be.

Ultimately is samurai dead? No. It’s not. See several of them running around daily and am actually enjoying leveling it myself however i do notice the absence of kaiten and can see there are still flaws that need to be… tweaked. But screaming dead job is disingenuous . There are jobs in this game in far worse shape than samurai.

Part of their wariness about following feedback might actually be related to AST. They changed the cards because everyone complained they were just fishing for balance and it was the only useful card, so they changed the all to balance. Now it's all about them being bland and the same and how the different effects were so much better and had more depth. It's a classic case of never being pleased.

[CelestiCer]

The funny thing is hearing over and over “why isn’t SE listening to our feedback” like this is the first time in the game’s history the devs haven’t listened to westerner feedback about a job.

Remember Yoshi and Dev's asked for feedback, we're giving it.

The funny thing is hearing over and over " why giving feedback is so utterly wrong ", definitely not the 1st time in history to have whitenights defending the mistakes of a company. Weird kink flex.

But we care little for anyone's Nihilism or how much we should partake in it by shutting up because some suckup's can't formulate a good argument point. Be it lack of experience or as you put it " Not having it leveled " to not know presumably that Kaiten is the only negative thing that is changed with Samurai. Either dismissive or ill-informed.

Ultimately is Samurai Dead? No. What people mean by Dead is either " Dead to them " or " It's identity ". And what did SAM meant to many?

• Charging and Building up resources
• Spending Kenki thoughtfully
• Channeling slow casts for Big hits

Patch 6.1 devalued all of it. Made it hollow. Soulless performance doesn't equal fun no.
The satisfying rhythmic feel of the rotation that had an ounce of thought behind it, rather then what we have now which is mindless Shinten spam is deleted gameplay.

The good ole " Other jobs suffering more " argument is overused, and irrelevant to a billion dollar company. The essence here is that another group in the playerbase got ignored. They can create/fix/change/address numerous countless issues/topics/changes etc. They just don't want to. That's the main gripe now, we're getting Zero responses. Somehow pointing that out is wrong and making us fight each-other based on that is logically right? quite idiotic.

Though I hope you're a little more informed. If a Job suffers I am not praying for another Job to get equally worse. If you want that as your stance? go have at it. Won't hurt my feelings.

[Darkpaw]

I never defended the company nor did i “white knight” the dev team in my post. I admitted that I’ve only recently picked up the job for Endwalker and am leveling it. I even admitted noticing the absence of kaiten and said that more tweaking needed to be done to the job to make up for the changes. Perhaps you should read the post again.

There is a lack of implementing user feedback in the game on some issues. Job adjustments being the obvious one. I do not pretend to be a samurai main or claim to know every intricacy of the job, but i did play it in Stormblood, in Shadowbringers, and now in Endwalker. It is not a dead job but it is a job that still needs something more to make up for what was lost.

Arguments I truly understand are that with the removal of Kaiten kenki is kind of a pointless resource as it only is there for shiten or kyuten spam. That is not engaging and not a good use of a resource.

Kaiten provided an interesting mechanic added to kenki and it has not been replaced, even if Iai is where it was with the kaiten buff. The lack of interaction with the kit Kaiten provided is.. a loss for samurai and needs to be replaced with something or reverted back to.

On another note I never said providing feedback was a bad thing. I simply stated that Samurai are not the only playerbase to have their feedback seemingly ignored. But flooding the forum with thread after thread is already something proven that the dev team doesnt respond to. It’s better to have 1 thread with all the replies then 200 small threads. And not all feedback is going to be adhered to. Understand that these forums are only a small part of the community, the majority do not come here. The dev team like the community knows that.

[Reese_Clairdale]

flooding the forum with thread after thread is already something proven that the dev team doesnt respond to. It’s better to have 1 thread with all the replies then 200 small threads.

Normally I would agree with this, but SE invited this chaos themselves by explicitly asking for feedback in the same live letter that these controversial changes were unveiled, as if they already knew they were horrible ideas. It's only natural that there was going to be a flood of new accounts created by upset SAM players who were also unaware of the forum's etiquette. Aside from this, the Japanese forum has in fact kept the majority of their feedback in a single thread, and SE has not deigned to answer them either, despite the general perception that only feedback in the Japanese forum is listened to.