SAM is dead

[Theodric_Thorne]

It's so terrible. I have never once in my life cared what SAM's DPS was relative to other jobs. It had the best rotation in the game out of the box at level 50 when it first came out, I loved it right away. At level 70 the rest of the rotation was the garnish on an exquisite pasta dish. In ShB and EW they just further refined the existing kit by giving us more of what we already had, adding a charge to Meikyo Shisui and giving us the Kaeshi Iaijutsu recast button. The only part of the initial EW changes I disliked was the removal of Seigan, because it made the use of Third Eye feel engaging and rewarding. I think they could have just deleted Merciful Eyes and made Seigan an extension of Third Eye, either automatically reflecting damage onto the target that struck Third Eye's shield, or transforming Third Eye into Seigan upon triggering its effect.

I do think we have a few too many buttons now, but this could be resolved by folding some buttons into others, and combining the effects of abilities like Guren/Senei and Shoha/Shoha II.

SAM has gone from an exquisite pasta dish to a meal replacement bar. Sure, it fills the hole in your stomach and is fairly nutritious, and it may even taste pretty good. But there's not much there you can really enjoy or look forward to about eating it again.

[Deithwen]

It's so terrible. I have never once in my life cared what SAM's DPS was relative to other jobs. It had the best rotation in the game out of the box at level 50 when it first came out, I loved it right away. At level 70 the rest of the rotation was the garnish on an exquisite pasta dish. In ShB and EW they just further refined the existing kit by giving us more of what we already had, adding a charge to Meikyo Shisui and giving us the Kaeshi Iaijutsu recast button. The only part of the initial EW changes I disliked was the removal of Seigan, because it made the use of Third Eye feel engaging and rewarding. I think they could have just deleted Merciful Eyes and made Seigan an extension of Third Eye, either automatically reflecting damage onto the target that struck Third Eye's shield, or transforming Third Eye into Seigan upon triggering its effect.

I do think we have a few too many buttons now, but this could be resolved by folding some buttons into others, and combining the effects of abilities like Guren/Senei and Shoha/Shoha II.

SAM has gone from an exquisite pasta dish to a meal replacement bar. Sure, it fills the hole in your stomach and is fairly nutritious, and it may even taste pretty good. But there's not much there you can really enjoy or look forward to about eating it again.

Imagine being used to that fine meal you regularly had, but now it's terrible because the chef changed the sauce and removed some ingredients. It's impossible to eat it without feeling robbed and asking for the older version of the meal back.

[RyuuZero]

I do think we have a few too many buttons now, but this could be resolved by folding some buttons into others, and combining the effects of abilities like Guren/Senei and Shoha/Shoha II.

I'm sorry to be this blunt but you basicly are suggesting to turn Guren/Senei and Shoha/Shoha II into Geirskogul and Nastrond, that would only make things worse. The Beauty of the Samurai that yet remains is that we have Options for both Situations to think about. My Suspicion is that they removed Kaiten in Order to make Space for a New Skill in 7.0, which will be a Single Target Ogi! The Thing that the Devs didn't thought of is what damage they do to Samurai by removing Kaiten, because as we all are aware of, from a Gameplay Perspective The Shinten Spam, doesn't Cut it! If they had someone in the devteam, who actually played Samurai, they would roll Tsubamegaeshi up into Iaijutsu, just how Ogi Namikiri works right now. I mean Tsubamegaeshi in my Opinion is just a waste of a Button anyway, since it doesn't contribute Meditation Stacks anymore, like it did since 5.2! Though Third Eye triggering Seigan would be dopeAF indeed I personally do not mind the Third Eye change so much since it still rewarded the Player with Kenki and the Massive Backlash really started around 6.1's Kaiten Removal, where I want to stop and stress everyone wants Kaiten back to focus to get Kaiten back because it's face the truth, we all were happy in 6.08

though.. I really wonder if there is some Game Dev out there noticing our concerns.. I mean a tabtarget-RPG with the 6.08 Samurai Playstyle would satisfy a good chunk of our needs, i'd imagine.

[Flashy]

I'm sorry to be this blunt but you basicly are suggesting to turn Guren/Senei and Shoha/Shoha II into Geirskogul and Nastrond, that would only make things worse. The Beauty of the Samurai that yet remains is that we have Options for both Situations to think about. My Suspicion is that they removed Kaiten in Order to make Space for a New Skill in 7.0, which will be a Single Target Ogi! The Thing that the Devs didn't thought of is what damage they do to Samurai by removing Kaiten, because as we all are aware of, from a Gameplay Perspective The Shinten Spam, doesn't Cut it! If they had someone in the devteam, who actually played Samurai, they would roll Tsubamegaeshi up into Iaijutsu, just how Ogi Namikiri works right now. I mean Tsubamegaeshi in my Opinion is just a waste of a Button anyway, since it doesn't contribute Meditation Stacks anymore, like it did since 5.2! Though Third Eye triggering Seigan would be dopeAF indeed I personally do not mind the Third Eye change so much since it still rewarded the Player with Kenki and the Massive Backlash really started around 6.1's Kaiten Removal, where I want to stop and stress everyone wants Kaiten back to focus to get Kaiten back because it's face the truth, we all were happy in 6.08

though.. I really wonder if there is some Game Dev out there noticing our concerns.. I mean a tabtarget-RPG with the 6.08 Samurai Playstyle would satisfy a good chunk of our needs, i'd imagine.

I disagree, because if we have to lose something due to button bloat, I'd rather combine Shoha I and II (Shoha II animation is lazy shit anyway) and Senei and Guren over losing Kaiten any day

[Deithwen]

I'm sorry to be this blunt but you basicly are suggesting to turn Guren/Senei and Shoha/Shoha II into Geirskogul and Nastrond, that would only make things worse. The Beauty of the Samurai that yet remains is that we have Options for both Situations to think about. My Suspicion is that they removed Kaiten in Order to make Space for a New Skill in 7.0, which will be a Single Target Ogi! The Thing that the Devs didn't thought of is what damage they do to Samurai by removing Kaiten, because as we all are aware of, from a Gameplay Perspective The Shinten Spam, doesn't Cut it! If they had someone in the devteam, who actually played Samurai, they would roll Tsubamegaeshi up into Iaijutsu, just how Ogi Namikiri works right now. I mean Tsubamegaeshi in my Opinion is just a waste of a Button anyway, since it doesn't contribute Meditation Stacks anymore, like it did since 5.2! Though Third Eye triggering Seigan would be dopeAF indeed I personally do not mind the Third Eye change so much since it still rewarded the Player with Kenki and the Massive Backlash really started around 6.1's Kaiten Removal, where I want to stop and stress everyone wants Kaiten back to focus to get Kaiten back because it's face the truth, we all were happy in 6.08

though.. I really wonder if there is some Game Dev out there noticing our concerns.. I mean a tabtarget-RPG with the 6.08 Samurai Playstyle would satisfy a good chunk of our needs, i'd imagine.

Back in SB we only had Gurren and it worked well, so I wouldn't really mind. I'd miss the cool Senei animation though, but it would be much better than what we have now.

[RyuuZero]

I disagree, because if we have to lose something due to button bloat, I'd rather combine Shoha I and II (Shoha II animation is lazy shit anyway) and Senei and Guren over losing Kaiten any day

You really want to turn the Samurai into a Dragoon Circle Jerk in order to get Kaiten back, instead of looking at the entire History of the Samurai Gameplay? seriously the merging of Shoha/Shoha II & Senei/Guren would turn those skills into Geirskogul/Nastrond but Circle AoE and I do not need that but Hey! if you hate half of Shoha so much why don't we get rid of Meditation altogether? that would delete 2 skills instead of one, wouldn't that be great?

Back in SB we only had Gurren and it worked well, so I wouldn't really mind. I'd miss the cool Senei animation though, but it would be much better than what we have now.

well SB introduced Guren as 2minute Line AoE Buster, just how ShB introduced Shoha as 3 Iaijutsu Bonus Attack, just how EW introduced Ogi Namikiri as an Ikishoten-Triggered Cone AoE Buster. Do you see the Pattern?
I will be more clear with it:
lvl70, Guren, AoE
lvl72, Senei, Single Target
lvl80 Shoha, Single Target
lvl82 Shoha II, AoE
lvl90 Ogi Namikiri, AoE
lvl92 Ogi Whatever, Single Target

My Point is that every new Resource gave the Samurai a New Skill that got Expanded upon a New Expansion to accommondate the other Situation in combat.
The Job is out since 2017 How am I the only One who sees this is beyond me.

[Flashy]

You really want to turn the Samurai into a Dragoon Circle Jerk in order to get Kaiten back, instead of looking at the entire History of the Samurai Gameplay? seriously the merging of Shoha/Shoha II & Senei/Guren would turn those skills into Geirskogul/Nastrond but Circle AoE and I do not need that but Hey! if you hate half of Shoha so much why don't we get rid of Meditation altogether? that would delete 2 skills instead of one, wouldn't that be great?

Just to clarify, I do not want buttons consolidated, I don't like losing things. I'm saying if we have no choice and have to lose buttons due to button bloat, then I couldn't give a damn about losing Shoha II and/or Guren and would rather keep Kaiten

I'm curious what your alternative would be if you had to remove something that is used during uptime

[RyuuZero]

Just to clarify, I do not want buttons consolidated, I don't like losing things. I'm saying if we have no choice and have to lose buttons due to button bloat, then I couldn't give a damn about losing Shoha II and/or Guren and would rather keep Kaiten

I'm curious what your alternative would be if you had to remove something that is used during uptime

Sorry if I got a bit heated there, it's just that I am kind of studying the details about the Samurai Gameplay that people loved, see what made Samurai Click for so many people and see pattern in the Development of it's Gameplay, since April.
My Solution to the Button Bloat in regards of Samurai would be to roll up Tsubamegaeshi into Iaijutsu, just how Ogi Namikiri does it right now.
Though it is important to take everything into account about Samurai, since it just need One Skill removed to piss off a hundered Player^^

[Deithwen]

You really want to turn the Samurai into a Dragoon Circle Jerk in order to get Kaiten back, instead of looking at the entire History of the Samurai Gameplay? seriously the merging of Shoha/Shoha II & Senei/Guren would turn those skills into Geirskogul/Nastrond but Circle AoE and I do not need that but Hey! if you hate half of Shoha so much why don't we get rid of Meditation altogether? that would delete 2 skills instead of one, wouldn't that be great?



well SB introduced Guren as 2minute Line AoE Buster, just how ShB introduced Shoha as 3 Iaijutsu Bonus Attack, just how EW introduced Ogi Namikiri as an Ikishoten-Triggered Cone AoE Buster. Do you see the Pattern?
I will be more clear with it:
lvl70, Guren, AoE
lvl72, Senei, Single Target
lvl80 Shoha, Single Target
lvl82 Shoha II, AoE
lvl90 Ogi Namikiri, AoE
lvl92 Ogi Whatever, Single Target

My Point is that every new Resource gave the Samurai a New Skill that got Expanded upon a New Expansion to accommondate the other Situation in combat.
The Job is out since 2017 How am I the only One who sees this is beyond me.

You are seeing a pattern, good for you, what I'm saying is that your argument that Sam is becoming like Dragoon is false, because at first we only had Gurren anyway. Unless you are wanting to admit to say that Samurai in 4.0 was like Dragoon ?
That would be a bold stance to hold.
Senei was already button bloat at the time, since it was exactly like Gurren but Single target, and gurren got nerfed.
Shoha is what it is, a filler. Shoha 2 is a useless variant.

"My Point is that every new Resource gave the Samurai a New Skill that got Expanded upon a New Expansion to accommondate the other Situation in combat."

It's absolutely false. Existing skills got changed and nerfed to create new versions of them. Samurai changed to be like it is now, and as such reverting it back won't harm the job too badly.

[Kabooa]

You really want to turn the Samurai into a Dragoon Circle Jerk in order to get Kaiten back, instead of looking at the entire History of the Samurai Gameplay?.

Hey.

Only I get to snidely say how old I am to other players.