Reaper needs additional buffs.

[Quyn]

I've read through both of our posts multiple times now and maybe it's just me being tired, but did anything you say disagree at all with my post? I'm confident my thesis was "jobs are easy in easy content and difficult in truly optimized content" and that seems to be exactly what you repeated back to me.

I even had a bit where I stated that there's an element of bias to determining a job's difficulty, though I guess I never expanded there. That bias can come from many forms; hearsay ("Ive heard x job is easy from people i trust ergo its easy"), natural talent ("the job just clicks for me"), and agenda pushing ("x job that I main is difficult therefore it should do more damage") are the biggest biases I see on a regular basis. Enough exist that getting impartial reads is difficult, hence why feedback should come from multiple sources.

I'm not sure what the background of the guy you quoted matters, either.

There really is no point of disagreement, hence the first word of my reply being yes ^^

I was merely reinforcing my distaste for when people call jobs easy, yet they never take them to savage.

[Flashy]

RPR never was the highest job in terms of rDPS. SAM was top at launch, with BLM in second place. Even still, there were a sizable number of SAM players who complained about not having enough of a rDPS advantage over RPR to justify the difference in 'complexity' or 'utility'. Square responded by nerfing our singular utility action and by nerfing SAM and a few other jobs' "complexity". Again, the comparisons between SAM players and 4.x WAR players are most apt. It's one reason why you should never let a single job sit at the top for too long.

And yet we still see such individuals coming in here trying to drag us down. Misery truly loves company.

RPR/MNK were clearly the best melee until 6.08 or whenever all melee except RPR were buffed

Personally as a SAM player at the time, I didn't care much because I was still learning the new rotation but it was a little annoying since RPR had a raid buff and outperformed SAM even in aDPS if I recall correctly

[Aelin_Ashryver]

cucked melee?
that's an odd way to speak about the melee job with superior mobility, superior utility, superior combo 1-2-3 potency, superior defensive, superior positionals? no positionals, superior range attacks linked to their mobility, all for less than a 2% dps difference between top, which was also absurdly broken on expansion release and it's 1st savage release, doesn't sound very "cucked" to me

Every melee has options for moving around, each have their own pro/con, and who honestly cares about a 1-2-3 potency? Other melee also have their own personal mits such as third eye, riddle of earth, shade shift. Superior ranged atk? Our ranged atk requires the movement ability be used else it is a cast unlike other jobs instant use ability, harvest moon you get one use out of unless there is prolonged downtime.

Frankly you sound salty. Every melee has options, mnk being the exception with no ranged atk. And under no circumstance will you EVER be using arcane crest's heal instead of a healer's ogcd heal. The healing it gives is a meme and very very rarely does it feel impactful. It's a 10% mit that also happens to have a heal attached similar to summon's pheonix having a heal that they don't give a crap about. If I could cherry pick I would take a ninja point and click mobility over rpr's set distance leap, to ME ninja's mobility is superior as you have more choice with it as well as 2x charges. As a healer I would rather have a monk mantra to help me than a reaper's arcane crest. And people love a dragoon for it's crit buff alone. Does not seem to me like the other melee are lacking vs rpr.

It's balance on release is irrelevant, they buffed everything above it. It shouldn't have been top, it should not be buffed to be the top. No reaper I know is asking to be the top dps. We are asking to not be so far behind in dps when our job is supposed to be selfish similar to a samurai as Yoshi P said in the live letter pre release. That is what they intended and it is NOT what we have currently. RPR should be a bit below a samurai not dead last trailing a job that gives superior raid buffs.

Also just because YOU think it's in a good spot does not mean SE agrees, they just buffed it so it clearly wasn't good enough and now it's on live servers and they can see performance or lack thereof they will likely add some further buffs. The issue is they take months to do simple potency changes at the best of times. They could think RPR needs work and we wont know for quite some time. The second any buffs for the job comes out you are proved wrong.

You are a non reaper main who for SOME reason (I wonder what) just wants reaper to feel worse? Is other people being happy with their job so horrible sounding to you? Is it an ego thing you don't want to have to actually compete in dps with them or what?? What exactly would the issue be for you?

[SaberMaxwell]

There really is no point of disagreement, hence the first word of my reply being yes ^^

I was merely reinforcing my distaste for when people call jobs easy, yet they never take them to savage.

Oh gotcha x3 sorry, like I said I was running on fumes lol

[Lyth]

...

Incorrect. From an rDPS standpoint, SAM was still on top at launch, which is where the job has been sitting comfortably for a while now. The complaint was that it didn't have enough of a dps lead to justify differences in 'complexity'/raid buffs/'utility' compared to RPR. Had none of this been brought up, SAM would still be sitting comfortably in that spot. But after that was scrutinized... well, the rest is history. This kind of insecure behavior always happens when a new job gets added to a role. Just watch, a new caster dps will come out next expansion, and players will start throwing stones at it because they feel threatened on established caster jobs that they've been playing for years. And it invariably backfires.

RPR is an incredibly fun job which caters to a wide range of skill levels. It doesn't need to be the most powerful melee dps, but there should be a lot more parity between them to ensure that differences are due to player skill and not job selection. I know that they want to incentivize less enjoyable jobs, but they should just fix the gameplay issues on them. Either way, we'll see what happens over the next few weeks.

[Hanayumi]

Curious if theres no major issues with the jobs gameplay and can clear all available content totally fine, why complain about the damage, is it just for the logs?

[Naoki34]

Even with the buff it got it's still going to be worse than the other melees by quite a significant margin.
Pls make the job not bad <3.

RPR's fine like that, he's not a pure Dps.
With a well placed shield, you can heal your team via a HoT. You can buff your team +3% Dps and put a debuff increasing 10% dmg on the target or in AoE.

It's a kind of NIN.

It doesn't dps as much as a SAM or something, but it's pretty decent with the right stats.

[Curisu]

Fun thing for the new savage is that right now MNK and RPR have the least amount of logged runs with about 800 while the other 3 are at 1350-1400 logs.
Also funny that the MNK is the highest DMG Melee and RPR the one with the lowest.
The difference of max parsed DMG between these two is just 2.2%.
Soo the difference of having a MNK instead of a RPR would be about 0.35% of the boss health.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

RPR's fine like that, he's not a pure Dps.
With a well placed shield, you can heal your team via a HoT. You can buff your team +3% Dps and put a debuff increasing 10% dmg on the target or in AoE.

It's a kind of NIN.

It doesn't dps as much as a SAM or something, but it's pretty decent with the right stats.

The Hot is tiny and will not be replacing any heal from your healer, in rare cases you might find it was useful that you popped it, in most cases it is just overheal. 3% dps is quite a small raid buff, mnk is 5% on brotherhood, ninja's mug is 5%. Yet the two jobs with a better raid buff (and mnk mantra imo is better than arcane crest) do a good chunk more damage than a reaper. They have a better raid buff, one has better party utility and they both outperform the rpr. It is not fine. The reaper was advertised as selfish like a sam. We have the more "selfish" style and lack the dmg meant to justify it. I would rather have no raid buff at all but I understand they probably didn't want reaper to compete directly with samurai as a pure dps. I am content doing less than a samurai, I am not happy that if you hid the job names and just looked at ff logs graph you would think reaper is a caster.

And you do realise that debuff is 10% damage for us alone right??

[Kabooa]

Curious if theres no major issues with the jobs gameplay and can clear all available content totally fine, why complain about the damage, is it just for the logs?

Some of it comes from expectation, but most of it comes from nowhere.

As far as expectation goes, we expect the Devs to follow their own standards they claim they've set when it comes to Job Balance, and discrepancies rightfully get called out, even should those discrepancies be minor in the grand scheme of things.

For example, using Reaper as that's being the topic of the thread, at the time of release, Arcane Crest violated the idea of utility vs damage. Whether or not it was too powerful wasn't the case - It was the fact that no other melee brought this capability, so as the initial scrutiny of its place in the damage meta began to sit, it becomes a glaring point of contention that you have a more flexible, more powerful, and non-offensively tied defensive utility that also benefits the party, compared to Samurai, who must use Third Eye to generate Kenki, Ninja's whose is available less often and selfish, Dragoon who gets hung out to dry, and Monk, who needs someone put the 'Oop' to their 'Alley' on Mantra.

This comes from the "expectation" that all Jobs have exactly (Using a hard number to illustrate this) 100 "points" to spend on their kit. If you take two jobs that deal the same amount of damage, then you expect that they have roughly equal capabilities in non-damage areas. The issue stems that some utilities are valued far more (RE: are more relevant to the content in question), so the final tally seems like it would outweigh another class whose utilities are not valued in said content.

Frankly we'll be doing this dance until the end of time, because while the Devs won't outright clone every job, they will adjust it enough that these small utilities will effectively be the only difference, and therefore will become even more contentious as small utilities shift in their value from each patch of the game.

Without a significant paradigm shift in their job philosophy, this is the lot they have chosen to deal with.

As for the "most of it comes from nowhere" part, a good amount of that just stems from a general playerbase not knowing what any job other than their own has been through or is capable of, and sometimes, not even then.