Reaper needs additional buffs.

[ZiraZ]

What are you talking about? You can look at the 6.0 logs and see that they were at that point the lowest rdps as well... the only nerf they got was to arcane crest. they were the top of rdps at the "Start" because of "FotM". Everyone was playing it in the party over everything else, because it was new a shiny. it literally had like 3x the barses of every other melee at launch on 1st raid tier. if we wanna play this game then how about smn? It has the exact same 3% buff, with HoTs, and a raise, but was the highest rdps outside of blm. same for this tier "atm" highest caster rdps, outside of blm. If you look at the median average rdps from 90%-95% which is where "most" groups will end up with bis outside of optimized raid comps. rpr is between 200-600 rdps lower than all the other melees. You can deny all you want, but rdps is king during prog for clears. can you clear without it? Yes, will you have a harder time? undoubtedly so. defensive utility is nice to have during prog as well, but if you "can" survive a mechanic without it, then rdps once again is king. You can have deniers say rdps isnt as important as Hots, healing increase, etc. but why does every boss have enrage timers? its a "race" against the clock, you either do enough dmg and clear or you don't. no in between when it comes to min. Ilv. are other jobs in need of buffs as well? absolutely, I'm not denying that, but you are missing the forest for the trees. All the underperforming jobs need to be brought up with the others. I have a question for you, "can you say that without a week delay and gear over what we would have normally, that the underperforming jobs would be better, or worse than they are now with less stats compared to the top preforming jobs for prog?" If your answer is yes, then you admit its a problem on all accounts, if you say no, then you are denying the facts based on the data freely available to everyone.

Reaper was pulling the highest personal dps, higher than sam and blm while having a raid buff, going back to look at 6.0 logs right now means nothing
reaper was the #1 spot for weeks during savage before every dps in the game got multiple buffs to compensate, they were doing higher selfish dps than samurai and blm while having a raid buff, and then arcane crest got a 100% nerf.
But anyways, Reaper does not need a buff in any way right now.

[MagiusNecros]

Reaper has a lot of bloated potencies with a slow GCD and only goes fast in Enshroud and is very reliant on Death Design to keep it's damage up so instead of the typical CRIT/DET you should probably focus on DET(the more the better to stack with DD)/DH instead of relying on Crit rng to meet a check.

Reaper damage hasn't suffered everyone else just has had their damage raised and is being overtaken as the xpac goes on. And buffing everyone's damage to be better then Reaper is in a way a nerf in itself.

Not sure why people are arguing about utility when the only raid buff RPR provides is a 3% damage increase over 20 seconds.

Arcane Crest is a pretty good AoE HoT that would have been godlike if it wasn't nerfed because healers were babies. Is up way more often then Mantra ever is and can be reliably used every raidwide and stack mechanic.

Those that prefer Mantra is entirely their preference for burst healing. Reaper seems more about sustain(which MNK does better) then burst and the current tier with your DPS check wants a lot of burst.

Samurai is more a melee burst caster class and is going to outperform RPR because of this.

I still think RPR is fine and this is really just a case of job imbalance across the board. Probably better to revert the Arcane Crest nerf and make some QoL changes to Sacrifice stacks and Harvest Moon.

This seems like a raider problem. And is only being discussed because you can't pass a DPS check because you are undergeared. Which is done on purpose. To pad out the raid a bit so you have something to work towards.

But hey if you want Reaps to be buffed you better start crying like a Warrior until you get what you want. I'm sure if Warriors cry enough they will get a DPS buff eventually. Since over in Tank land DRK and GNB are all the rage because of the DPS they bring.

[MordecaiGalidonus]

Reaper was pulling the highest personal dps, higher than sam and blm while having a raid buff, going back to look at 6.0 logs right now means nothing
reaper was the #1 spot for weeks during savage before every dps in the game got multiple buffs to compensate, they were doing higher selfish dps than samurai and blm while having a raid buff, and then arcane crest got a 100% nerf.
But anyways, Reaper does not need a buff in any way right now.

How does it mean nothing? You literally are stating it was the highest personal dps with a raid buff while the logs clearly show that is false outside of prog for the first 2-3 weeks because reaper was clocking in 3x the barses compared to every other melee job, because as YOU said "FotM" if you look at the gap between the jobs "after" the buffs/nerfs" the gap was even bigger between them. most of reapers dmg comes from its enshroud/gluttony/ and burst windows. every job got buffs towards the main focus of their job in 6.2 besides the classes that are suffering atm. All reaper got this patch was filler combo pot increases, but that's not the focus of the job, when most its dmg comes from burst. Sam, Mnk, Nin, Drg, didnt get anything in the form of pot buffs towards rdps, yet they beat reaper in rdps that got a buff towards pointless filler abilities. literally only, PLD, WAR, Reaper, and GNB got pot buffs this patch and 3/4 of those are the lowest performing roles in their categories, outside of other jobs that didnt really get anything. *cough cough* "MCH" This shows that they "Were" the weakest performing coming out of the last patch, and would you look at that, they all are the lowest in RDPS, ADPS, AND NDPS from last tier. Wanna know why reaper is beating NIN, and DRG atm in ADPS, and NDPS? because most players don't have full bis atm, once they do reaper will drop once again to the bottom completely in every category for melee. Its ok tho, they have a 3% dmg buff that the reaper is punished for not hitting everyone with for pot, unlike SMN, and they have a worthless 30sec. cooldown HoT that is clearly overblown and not needed based on the first week of clears for the raid tier just based on the clear rates alone. it still has one of the lowest usage rates out of all jobs this tier, 3-7% for every fight. Btw arcane crest got a 50% nerf... it went from 100pot to 50pot per tick, aka from 500pot total to 250pot.

here's a fun piece of brain food, they changed Samurais "Third eye" when you can no longer use Hissatsu: Seigan 15 kenki cost and 220 pot, and "Merciful eyes" a 200 pot self heal that "can" be used every 15sec. if hit, just like reaper arcane crest on a 30sec. cooldown. "Merciful eyes" is only 50pot weaker that reapers HoT on 1/2 the cooldown so its technically 400pot every 30sec. wanna know why Samurai never used that and only used "Hissatsu: Seigan"? Because damage is all that matters in this game because the game is designed to be "able" to clear with any job comp and long as you have at least 1 of each role in your party. MEANING you can have a party of all GREEDY DPS and still clear WITHOUT "Defensive Utility", and yes, "Raid utility" and "Defensive utility" are different things no matter how other plebians try to mix the 2. If they are the same then why is it after prog all the jobs that are punished for for having "Defensive Utility" become relaced by "Raid Utility" jobs? because "Defensive Utility" make up for the lack thereof in your party when you don't know the fight yet, and "Raid Utility" just exacerbate how much "Defensive Utility" is not needed in an optimized group setting. Killing a boss faster will always negate more dmg than dragging it out until .1% black screen clears. DMG>Defensive Utility.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

Raid dps is personal dps combined with raidbuffs (mug littany circle aso are already included) so all jobs should have the same rdps unless they also provide utility. NIN DRG SAM have no utility, while RPR does. Which is why those 3 are slightly ahead.

MNK is an outlier and arguably overtuned.

To put it in other words it doesnt matter if you deal your raid dps through high personal dps like a SAM or mediocre personal dps and raidbuffs like a DRG - both of those should end up with the same raid dps. SAM is justified to have higher personal dps than a DRG but not higher raid dps.

Thats what some people really struggle to understand.

Sam literally has HIGHER RAID DPS than a DRG what are you on about go and look for yourself. It is outdone only by monk. I think you must not have eyes or cannot read a graph idk anymore.

Sam is not justified to have higher rdps than a drg??

Ykno what happens when the selfish dps does garbage rdps?? You get MCH. It's blocked from pf's on a regular basis. Selfish deeps need the higher personal dmg to keep up with those with raid buffs and utility they do not have. Reaper has the weaker raid buff and weaker utility skill. It should be higher end of story.

[ChaozK]

You are mindboggingly lacking in understanding. I am saying there is supposed to be parity in their raid dps (which there is right now). Selfish dps have no entitlement to higher raid dps. They are supposed to be on par.

They are entitled to higher personal dps.

[Lyth]

It's irrelevant to talk about 'personal' dps because all comparisons are made on the basis of rdps. I'm not even sure why you would even bring the subject up.

Balance discussions on rdps always come down to whether you feel that dps differences are within acceptable limits. But where do you draw the line? 500 dps? 1000 dps? I can convert the numbers into percentages so that we're using smaller numbers to make the differences look subjectively smaller, but a 1% wipe is still a wipe. And while no balance will ever be 'perfect', discrepancies are still a problem even when they're small.

What compounds this is how players react to the numbers. It influences players perceptions on what a 'good' job is, which in turn gets reflected in numbers. The number of RPR players has tanked this tier. Which is partly what they were going for, but they overshot the mark. The other issue is that if a job stays on top for too long, players start reinforcing the idea that this is the way things 'should be' and start coming up with really obnoxious reasons as to why ('because my job is intrinsically higher skill than yours, even when played freestyle') Which in turn creates the perception that jobs like SAM and BLM are 'expected' to always be on top of their respective subgroups, even when there's no justification for such favoritism when you're looking at rdps.

The reality is that it largely just reflects whoever has been complaining the loudest. We'll have to see what happens. If enough people enjoyed RPR's aesthetics and are upset at the job's mistreatment this tier, then we'll hopefully start to see more backlash and more momentum to bring about a change.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

Well if nothing else the people saying reaper is fine are keeping the thread alive and well for CM to see our complaints. GG buff reaper ty.

[MagiusNecros]

mmh yes buff Reaper. Also give me my Enshroud glamour. I want to be a Sith Lord all the time. The form looks amaze balls. Would prefer spooky mode just being infinite Gibbets and Gallows for 30 seconds. Gotta go fast.

> : U

[ChaozK]

It's irrelevant to talk about 'personal' dps because all comparisons are made on the basis of rdps. I'm not even sure why you would even bring the subject up.

It matters in the context of this thread as people time and time again take offense at Reaper being 5th in raid dps despite being a selfish job.

[MordecaiGalidonus]

It matters in the context of this thread as people time and time again take offense at Reaper being 5th in raid dps despite being a selfish job.

The issue isn't that it's 5ty in rdps, it's that it's last in every category last tier, and only middle adps atm because everyone doesn't have his yet. A month from now it'll be sitting at the bottom of rdps, adps, ndps. That's not fine for a greedy dps with a lackluster raid buff that it's actually punished for not hitting everyone with it.