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  1. #1
    Player
    CelestiCer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    6.08 Hissatsu: Kaiten Give it back !!! obviously, mhm.
    Posts
    879
    Character
    Celesti Cer
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kabooa View Post
    A graph without headings is useless.

    Include those, if you don't mind.
    A callout I assume without backing is lazy and useless. I'll include the link to the " https://discord.gg/thebalanceffxiv " you can CTRL+F search function the discord for the sources.

    But to just be sure here it is



    and you can read at the top left rDPS was selected


    Now to really make sure you're not calling me out on BS cause of the coloring, here's the conversation which again you can CTRL+F which you won't do cause that's evidence with sources come on now that's lazy, which also is littered with a lot and I do mean a ton... of conversations about the same topic of RPR top RDPS yes in that period with dates even and with more screenshots...




    Apparently they were testing Chrome backlight settings compared to dark-mode. I prefer dark mode and that's the one I posted so apologies for not Including a hard to find source that you can not just Google search to FFlogs and find it. But! Lazy callouts is the name of the game, so we can go even further! and go to the


    " FFXIV-PatchArchive " in it stating that in 6.05 Reaper got nerfed by Patch 6.05
    " Arcane Crest's cure potency from the Crest of Time Returned effect has been reduced from 100 to 50. "

    Huh, which honestly doesn't explain why Reaper got out performed during this period. What gives? Well if you read the next patches... it seems factually true that Reaper performance remained the same, while nearly every over Job got buffed beyond Reaper that made Reaper look weak cause in comparison it got outranked.

    Unless you want to question the FFXIV Patchnotes as uncreditable sources.

    Here I put " Patchnotes " in size 4 headings. Want anything else in headings =__= ;?
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CelestiCer View Post
    A callout I assume without backing is lazy and useless.
    I can quite literally link you any graph and make any claim I want if I also don't include the navigation for you to get there.

    In other words, it's basic information sharing to include the source for others to look into it directly, instead of blindly believing it.

    Thank you.

    Edit: I'll be providing you an example, for instance, just give me a few minutes to comb through things.



    So far example, here we have a direct refutation to the idea that Reaper was the Top DPS. Certainly good, mind, but not the best. That seems to go to Monk. As you can see, I've included the timeline at the bottom so you can look at the various dates where patches dropped and you can directly see its result in the following weeks.

    What is perhaps most interesting is that monk's buff was quite minor but it still rockets ahead of Reaper, by an inordinate amount. There's a few ways to explain this, but it's primarily the fact that the Crit meta favors classes who can stack all of their potency into the crit windows, and when it comes to "RDPS", the Reaper's party buff is fairly weak so as the party improves, its own relative improvement isn't that great. Combine this with the fact that Monk has stupid crit scaling and it's fairly obvious why the Monk, with barely any changes, sees a similar divide between itself and Reaper that the other classes require significant buffing to achieve.

    That said, do you know why you shouldn't believe this?

    It's because I haven't provided you headers. You don't know what this encounter is, and therefore would be hardpressed to to bring up the data to look for it yourself. Even if you did luck into the same graph, there's alsways the plausible explanation that they just look similar and aren't one and the same.

    Here's the full graph with easily read and searchable headings.



    Now you see it's only a singular encounter, not an aggregate, but singular encounters tell us more about what encounters favor what class. Glancing at the other encounters doesn't play much in Reaper's favor either, nor does its fall from grace be explained when some of the jobs soaring past it are ones who received feather light touches.

    Were I to venture a guess, you had more proficient people playing Reaper to learn it prior to the raids coming out, inflating how it looked compared to the rest of the jobs, especially jobs who need more practice in a particular encounter in order to start hitting their stride. That isn't to say Reaper was bad, just that it rightfully had the majority of the focus.

    It is a prog friendly job.

    Things have settled out now and while other jobs certainly need a looking at before them, we could probably toss another 100-200 potency onto Communio and things would be fine, but we should really wait for a few more weeks of data, just that referencing the 6.1 patch standings, there's room for them to wiggle up.

    Edit2: Adding a few more observations

    As player capability improves, the Reaper's lead shrinks significantly prior to the savage patch, which again leads to the assumption that the Reaper had a focus on it for those looking to learn and optimize early, and then as that focus shifted out to other jobs, the lead it has shrinks. Monk and Black Mage would have eclipsed Reaper with no adjustments.
    (5)
    Last edited by Kabooa; 09-02-2022 at 02:56 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CelestiCer View Post
    ...
    It's generally useful to include the encounter under comparison, in addition to the type of data that you're comparing. For example, the discord conversation that you linked was dated as 17/12/2021. Asphodelos was released on 21/12/2021. So what encounter is actually under comparison in your graph? The highest level content available at the time would be one of the two launch Extreme primals. That may have been interesting preliminary information at the time, but it's fairly irrelevant as a measure of job performance in Savage. If you have any early Asphodelos graphs I'd be interested in looking at them, but as far as I remember SAM was on top in there followed by BLM, at least until SAM players started vocally complaining about RPR.
    (2)