Reaper needs additional buffs.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

Really don't understand why people are so against reaper being more on par with other melee. It was touted by Yoshi P in the live letter pre release to be a more selfish DPS like a samurai. I expect it to be below a samurai since it has a small raid buff. It should not be so far below like it is now when it offers worse raid buffs than the melee above it. Arcane crest's utility is laughable, if any raidwide aoe requires any sort of healing a single ogcd heal from any healer will cover it. You will not be substituting any heals for an arcane crest. It's useful for personal mitigation and other jobs have these too without being taxed so hard.

As for difficulty, barely any jobs require much thought at this point so how is it a factor at all? I found the monk rotation easy, samurai is straight forward and so is dragoon.

I don't want to feel like I am playing the cucked melee purely because they buffed the rest above it and failed to compensate for it in 6.2
A bit more agility in terms of job balance from devs would be nice, it's not nice to wait 4 months for any balancing.

[Quyn]

Really don't understand why people are so against reaper being more on par with other melee. It was touted by Yoshi P in the live letter pre release to be a more selfish DPS like a samurai. I expect it to be below a samurai since it has a small raid buff. It should not be so far below like it is now when it offers worse raid buffs than the melee above it. Arcane crest's utility is laughable, if any raidwide aoe requires any sort of healing a single ogcd heal from any healer will cover it. You will not be substituting any heals for an arcane crest. It's useful for personal mitigation and other jobs have these too without being taxed so hard.

As for difficulty, barely any jobs require much thought at this point so how is it a factor at all? I found the monk rotation easy, samurai is straight forward and so is dragoon.

I don't want to feel like I am playing the cucked melee purely because they buffed the rest above it and failed to compensate for it in 6.2
A bit more agility in terms of job balance from devs would be nice, it's not nice to wait 4 months for any balancing.

My assumption is its due to Reaper having much less things to press and track/ align. I personally couldnt care less if Reaper did top dps or not, i play jobs i enjoy and not for 5% more dps on some chart.

[Lyth]

Really don't understand why people are so against reaper being more on par with other melee.

A lot of the angst aimed at RPR comes from the fact that it's simply the new job on the block and there's just naturally a lot of jealousy around its toys. Even when the job wasn't even fully released yet, in the first few threads, you had a bunch of players just really happy and excited to play the job. And then out of the blue people would pop in and say 'Yeah, but its rotation is mindlessly easy,' or start complaining that the job needed nerfs. That continued well into launch. Even still, most people who are offering commentary about RPR's gameplay have no idea about how the optimizations work on it and are just parroting out comments that they've heard others say previously. Sure, freestyle RPR is pretty simple (as is freestyle SAM and MNK, for that matter) if you just mash buttons as they light up. But that's very suboptimal, and we thankfully have some interesting resource and buff management once you get deeper into it.

The damage discrepancy is more about player numbers than anything else. You can't argue that it's because of raid dps buffs because the associated benefit is integrated already in to the rdps calculation. If you're doing higher damage despite not bringing raid dps buffs, that's because you do more damage directly than those buffs are worth. Likewise, it's not on the basis of utility. Arcane Crest's healing component was massively nerfed because players on other jobs complained about it. So you can't even make that claim now. No, the real reason was because it was tough to jump into PF at launch with how saturated the job was with them. And that just comes down to the fact that the job feels fantastic to play in terms of animations and pure mobility.

Either way, I don't mind too much as long as there's a decent amount of overlap. It ensures that players choose the job for the right reasons. What's more important is that we actually have an active discussion going on the job entering into 7.x, so that the design remains in a good place. It's unfortunate that this subforum is shared by so many jobs, because most of the interesting discussions get quickly scrolled off before they get any traction.

[ZiraZ]

Really don't understand why people are so against reaper being more on par with other melee. It was touted by Yoshi P in the live letter pre release to be a more selfish DPS like a samurai. I expect it to be below a samurai since it has a small raid buff. It should not be so far below like it is now when it offers worse raid buffs than the melee above it. Arcane crest's utility is laughable, if any raidwide aoe requires any sort of healing a single ogcd heal from any healer will cover it. You will not be substituting any heals for an arcane crest. It's useful for personal mitigation and other jobs have these too without being taxed so hard.

As for difficulty, barely any jobs require much thought at this point so how is it a factor at all? I found the monk rotation easy, samurai is straight forward and so is dragoon.

I don't want to feel like I am playing the cucked melee purely because they buffed the rest above it and failed to compensate for it in 6.2
A bit more agility in terms of job balance from devs would be nice, it's not nice to wait 4 months for any balancing.

cucked melee?
that's an odd way to speak about the melee job with superior mobility, superior utility, superior combo 1-2-3 potency, superior defensive, superior positionals? no positionals, superior range attacks linked to their mobility, all for less than a 2% dps difference between top, which was also absurdly broken on expansion release and it's 1st savage release, doesn't sound very "cucked" to me

[Aelin_Ashryver]

cucked melee?
that's an odd way to speak about the melee job with superior mobility, superior utility, superior combo 1-2-3 potency, superior defensive, superior positionals? no positionals, superior range attacks linked to their mobility, all for less than a 2% dps difference between top, which was also absurdly broken on expansion release and it's 1st savage release, doesn't sound very "cucked" to me

Every melee has options for moving around, each have their own pro/con, and who honestly cares about a 1-2-3 potency? Other melee also have their own personal mits such as third eye, riddle of earth, shade shift. Superior ranged atk? Our ranged atk requires the movement ability be used else it is a cast unlike other jobs instant use ability, harvest moon you get one use out of unless there is prolonged downtime.

Frankly you sound salty. Every melee has options, mnk being the exception with no ranged atk. And under no circumstance will you EVER be using arcane crest's heal instead of a healer's ogcd heal. The healing it gives is a meme and very very rarely does it feel impactful. It's a 10% mit that also happens to have a heal attached similar to summon's pheonix having a heal that they don't give a crap about. If I could cherry pick I would take a ninja point and click mobility over rpr's set distance leap, to ME ninja's mobility is superior as you have more choice with it as well as 2x charges. As a healer I would rather have a monk mantra to help me than a reaper's arcane crest. And people love a dragoon for it's crit buff alone. Does not seem to me like the other melee are lacking vs rpr.

It's balance on release is irrelevant, they buffed everything above it. It shouldn't have been top, it should not be buffed to be the top. No reaper I know is asking to be the top dps. We are asking to not be so far behind in dps when our job is supposed to be selfish similar to a samurai as Yoshi P said in the live letter pre release. That is what they intended and it is NOT what we have currently. RPR should be a bit below a samurai not dead last trailing a job that gives superior raid buffs.

Also just because YOU think it's in a good spot does not mean SE agrees, they just buffed it so it clearly wasn't good enough and now it's on live servers and they can see performance or lack thereof they will likely add some further buffs. The issue is they take months to do simple potency changes at the best of times. They could think RPR needs work and we wont know for quite some time. The second any buffs for the job comes out you are proved wrong.

You are a non reaper main who for SOME reason (I wonder what) just wants reaper to feel worse? Is other people being happy with their job so horrible sounding to you? Is it an ego thing you don't want to have to actually compete in dps with them or what?? What exactly would the issue be for you?

[ZiraZ]

Every melee has options for moving around, each have their own pro/con, and who honestly cares about a 1-2-3 potency? Other melee also have their own personal mits such as third eye, riddle of earth, shade shift. Superior ranged atk? Our ranged atk requires the movement ability be used else it is a cast unlike other jobs instant use ability, harvest moon you get one use out of unless there is prolonged downtime.

Frankly you sound salty. Every melee has options, mnk being the exception with no ranged atk. And under no circumstance will you EVER be using arcane crest's heal instead of a healer's ogcd heal. The healing it gives is a meme and very very rarely does it feel impactful. It's a 10% mit that also happens to have a heal attached similar to summon's pheonix having a heal that they don't give a crap about. If I could cherry pick I would take a ninja point and click mobility over rpr's set distance leap, to ME ninja's mobility is superior as you have more choice with it as well as 2x charges. As a healer I would rather have a monk mantra to help me than a reaper's arcane crest. And people love a dragoon for it's crit buff alone. Does not seem to me like the other melee are lacking vs rpr.

It's balance on release is irrelevant, they buffed everything above it. It shouldn't have been top, it should not be buffed to be the top. No reaper I know is asking to be the top dps. We are asking to not be so far behind in dps when our job is supposed to be selfish similar to a samurai as Yoshi P said in the live letter pre release. That is what they intended and it is NOT what we have currently. RPR should be a bit below a samurai not dead last trailing a job that gives superior raid buffs.

Also just because YOU think it's in a good spot does not mean SE agrees, they just buffed it so it clearly wasn't good enough and now it's on live servers and they can see performance or lack thereof they will likely add some further buffs. The issue is they take months to do simple potency changes at the best of times. They could think RPR needs work and we wont know for quite some time. The second any buffs for the job comes out you are proved wrong.

You are a non reaper main who for SOME reason (I wonder what) just wants reaper to feel worse? Is other people being happy with their job so horrible sounding to you? Is it an ego thing you don't want to have to actually compete in dps with them or what?? What exactly would the issue be for you?

I don't agree with any of that, reaper seems perfectly balanced right now.

[BarretOblivion]

I don't agree with any of that, reaper seems perfectly balanced right now.

The cold hard data is right now, RPR is not. RPR is the lowest melee dps right now. (Yes, it's below NIN) after all the other melee jobs got buffed/reworked because the weren't in a great place (except MNK, MNK's been hot since 6.0). RPR is not the only major job balance issue right now.

Currently:
WAR/PLD/RDM/BRD/MCH all are underperforming to an extreme degree if you look at logs and you speak with top teams who cleared the tier. When players are being forced to swap JOBS to hit DPS checks you have a gigantic massive issue. While many would argue 'just nerf the overperforming ones' the issue is SE has balanced the current raid tier and the ultimate around the current balance they had with the bulk of other jobs DPS. To nerf the outliers would require a nerf also to some of the DPS requirements of the tier (which they are never going to do) mainly for 8S.
Now to specifically point out at RPR, RPR has been on the downward trend hard since the other melees (again besides MNK) got buffed/reworked particularily looking at around when DSR released. RPR is pretty darn terrible specifically in DSR, partly due to the nature of the fight being burst focused and RPR basically needing a portion of their burst to be reliant on a 'gauge' that they can't fill or do anything at all to build during downtime (WHICH THERE IS ALOT IN DSR).

[Supersnow845]

The cold hard data is right now, RPR is not. RPR is the lowest melee dps right now. (Yes, it's below NIN) after all the other melee jobs got buffed/reworked because the weren't in a great place (except MNK, MNK's been hot since 6.0). RPR is not the only major job balance issue right now.

Currently:
WAR/PLD/RDM/BRD/MCH all are underperforming to an extreme degree if you look at logs and you speak with top teams who cleared the tier. When players are being forced to swap JOBS to hit DPS checks you have a gigantic massive issue. While many would argue 'just nerf the overperforming ones' the issue is SE has balanced the current raid tier and the ultimate around the current balance they had with the bulk of other jobs DPS. To nerf the outliers would require a nerf also to some of the DPS requirements of the tier (which they are never going to do) mainly for 8S.
Now to specifically point out at RPR, RPR has been on the downward trend hard since the other melees (again besides MNK) got buffed/reworked particularily looking at around when DSR released. RPR is pretty darn terrible specifically in DSR, partly due to the nature of the fight being burst focused and RPR basically needing a portion of their burst to be reliant on a 'gauge' that they can't fill or do anything at all to build during downtime (WHICH THERE IS ALOT IN DSR).

I’d also argue SMN and BLM are undertuned. SMN and RDM are both almost the same and they are both in very bad shape, BLM is fine as a true caster but since it more fills the spot of fake melee it’s really undertuned for the fake melee spot

Basically everyone is a mess except GNB/DRK/NIN/SAM/MNK and DRG with the healers only balanced because even a 2 year old could balance the healers

[remiff]

I’d also argue SMN and BLM are undertuned. SMN and RDM are both almost the same and they are both in very bad shape, BLM is fine as a true caster but since it more fills the spot of fake melee it’s really undertuned for the fake melee spot

Basically everyone is a mess except GNB/DRK/NIN/SAM/MNK and DRG with the healers only balanced because even a 2 year old could balance the healers

Overall all casters need a buff, the bard, the machinist and reaper also, the paladin and the war should not be so far from the PST / DRK DPS as well.

They could also add a guaranteed autocrit on certain spell.

[ZiraZ]

The cold hard data is right now, RPR is not. RPR is the lowest melee dps right now. (Yes, it's below NIN) after all the other melee jobs got buffed/reworked because the weren't in a great place (except MNK, MNK's been hot since 6.0). RPR is not the only major job balance issue right now.

Currently:
WAR/PLD/RDM/BRD/MCH all are underperforming to an extreme degree if you look at logs and you speak with top teams who cleared the tier. When players are being forced to swap JOBS to hit DPS checks you have a gigantic massive issue. While many would argue 'just nerf the overperforming ones' the issue is SE has balanced the current raid tier and the ultimate around the current balance they had with the bulk of other jobs DPS. To nerf the outliers would require a nerf also to some of the DPS requirements of the tier (which they are never going to do) mainly for 8S.
Now to specifically point out at RPR, RPR has been on the downward trend hard since the other melees (again besides MNK) got buffed/reworked particularily looking at around when DSR released. RPR is pretty darn terrible specifically in DSR, partly due to the nature of the fight being burst focused and RPR basically needing a portion of their burst to be reliant on a 'gauge' that they can't fill or do anything at all to build during downtime (WHICH THERE IS ALOT IN DSR).

Cold hard data says on P8SP1 reaper is on par basically with drg on rdps and ahead on adps, just because it's the lowest doesn't mean it needs a buff, the bottom part of the melees are well balanced.
Everything indicates that playing RPR vs DRG is not a dealbreaker, if you are having issues with enrage it's most likely someone else in your party playing something that is underperforming like WAR/PLD/MCH/RDM/SMN/BRD, not reaper, reaper does not need a buff, all those other previously mentioned jobs do.