Button bloat and patch balance

[CelestiCer]

Button Bloat is non-existing,... well at least to me.

Using Keyboard + cheap Logitech mouse with 2 extra side buttons, I have no issues with button bloat. Often bloat issue is associated with controller players when we have plenty parsers even DRG and AST at 99% on Controllers. Far extreme examples, still showcases its possible. Though SE seems to overcorrect/compensate. Cause Players differ in where they draw the line of liking more or less buttons, regardless of controller/keyboard preferences.

More/Less buttons purely for the sake of More/Less buttons is bad design.

• Change should be meaningful
• It should fix or improve something
• Done to appeal to whatever you prefer to use

I don't want to play needing 5 hotbars, 10 macro's, mathematician my keybinds while I also like to believe not everyone wants to play FFXIV with just 4 buttons and Netflix on their 2nd monitor during PvE combat.

Fusing Skills or making Skills turn into another/next Skill are solutions to tackle bloat and improve the space we have on whatever we use optimally. As long as this doesn't sacrifice gameplay? like it's fluidity and doesn't dumb it down nor overcomplicate it? I would be fine with it. Hence numerous Samurai suggested the same better alternatives vs blatantly removing Kaiten.

For Dragoons we can go to the " FFXIV Job Guide " part of the Webpage, scroll all the way down and click the shiny yellow button to see SE's reasoning for reverting Dragoon.

This seems like an overcorrection by many, that didn't fix nor improve anything. To topit off? they smacked " Based on Player-Feedback " to it to make sure the blame is shifted to ourselves instead of SE who made the changes. What do I know? Finger point at your leisure.

Another thing is that setting up keybinds isn't new... well to me. I played a lot of MMO's. Yet, if I realistically put myself in the shoes of a new player that perhaps also is new to MMO's? the game does a poor job at guiding you to setup hotkeys, key-binds, hud optimizations etc. It's there! but, just not very clear - which can lead to Button bloat issues. Although to be fair? every MMO has this issue.

And with that experience? I can safely say... FFXIV does not suffer from bloat like many other MMO's do. Some Jobs do have more buttons, and can use QOL changes? but it is unnecessary for it to come at the cost of Gameplay. SE clearly can do better, but my god the changes they done with the excuses they gave? does not address Button Bloat nor does it seem to be due to the issue they want to tackle i.e Button Bloat.

[MagiusNecros]

I'm honestly surprised they are keeping Dragon Kick Monk a thing. Monk was completely untouched.

Some of their changes are just baffling to me.

For the Dragoon change if I ever had the desire to play it again they made it worth using my Jump/Mirage Dive macros so good job Battle System dev team.

SAM players are going to complain as much as DRKS will because taking away Kaiten was half the job and they butchered it. They are understandably not happy.

Just like DRK is running on life support since they completely screwed over Dark Arts in favor of chasing a 2 min CD 15 second burst window where you throw everything you have at a boss and then wait to do it again.

[Kahnom]

Life surge laugh at Kaiten.

[CKNovel]

The real problem with Samurai is that they took one of the best gauge in the game, Kenki gauge, and made it into one of the worst gauge in the game.
During ShB, SAM could spend Kenki for Shinten, Senei and Kaiten. Today it's only used for Kaiten.

The only problem SAM had in ShB was the double midare drifting.
"Button bloat" wasn't an issue and they already removed the actions tied to 3rd eye. Everyone was fine with the 3rd eye change because the consequence remains the same:
Taking damage under 3rd eye results in DPS gain.

I believe the removal of Kaiten would've been fine if the Kenki gauge had another use or was replaced with something consuming the gauge.
The consequences of removing Kaiten impacts not only the SAM hotbar but also the gauge and core gameplay.

I think we should be happy with Mirage Dive revert, it's kinda a proof that they listen to feedback and we should encourage them to continue to do so.
The same goes for MCH, yet I have one complain with it, it's too late.

AQ duration and targeting were already too long during ShB. The fix is basically one expansion too late and EW brought/expanded a ton of issues within the ranged role and more precisely the MCH.
The changes we had for EW are questionable, they bring problems they then have to fix, without even expanding on the job's nature and identity. Crown Collider and Kaiten removal are two perfect examples.

[CelestiCer]

Found a good link by Aco505 directing to the Dev Balancing Thread where cjbeagle compared total buttons of several jobs. Surprised, I started counting mine.



With sprint included I count " 34 " buttons I use.


I am thinking back to what I had to deal with in other MMO's compared to FFXIV...

• Juggling multiple potions, dispelling potions, food buffs, consumables
• Clicking Guild activation buffs and Teleports cause no room on hotbar
• Siege ammo, flares and other combat items for large scale combat
• Keybinding Multiple Pet skills and Mounts for different combat benefits
• Hotkeying different Gear sets and weapons to swap midcombat

FFXIV players are pampered when it comes to Button Management...

I am sure plenty don't realize how bad it was in other MMO's to complain about Button Bloat in this one, specifially if it's the argument point to support the idiotic choice of Kaiten removal for Samurai's to tackle Button Bloat.

[Duskane]

They really shot themselves in the foot with the button bloat excuse now people will never forget it,
its just a weird excuse because stuff like undraw and shield bash still exist.

We have mirage dive changes but not Pitch perfect for Bard which im pretty sure had same if not more people vocal about it than mirage dive.
I do think button bloat is a "issue" but not a "This is impossible to play" kind of thing its just a inconvenience or slight annoyance,
like Kaiten getting axed but Shoha two exist,
pitch perfect getting merged with wanderers instead of Battle voice and Radiant finale or refulgent procing over burst shot.
Just strange Japanese game dev philosophy i guess.

[SilverSkyway]

What mmos had that many. Maybe classic WoW. I'm trying to think. But I can't think of a old mmo that had that many buttons other then classic WoW and even then.
DAoC maybe but I have no comment on melee as I played a pet caster. Yeah. Even as a Caster I filled 2 hotbars but slower game I could mouse click over faster pace of FF14 where I look away I'm dead.
Everquest?
Guild wars? I never played.
Swtor?
What game you have over 34 button and use EVER fight.
There also a different in have a ability for lore reason (like WoW hunter traps) and having abilities that always being used. In FF14 I'm using about every ability at some point in a fight while in WoW I use 1/3 depend on class. This on trash mobs.

Before Criterion were a thing, I would ask. Why do we need a aoe combo/3+ buttons just for aoe when aoe barely used other then a quick dungeon runs. Now that a different story.

I'm unable to get into melee in this game. Tanking stress me out and dps have to much going on. So I lean into rdps. To me rpds are not fun and I don't feel like a hero. But I play them because I feel i'm not going to mess up my rotation unlike melee where my brain and fingers ache. I understand not every job be for me but I do feel some job can combined or out right remove (without messing combo) buttons to some jobs. (*looks at Drg 6 ogcd jumps*)

[Supersnow845]

I know this is technically the DPS forum but since this post kinda morphed into “devs explanations for job changes are either crap or non existent” can anyone explain why they changed the regen effects not generating agro beyond “YPYT gets angry healer drew agro with regen”

Of all the problems the healers have regen agro was not one of them, especially since the healers have just been that badly balanced since ShB

[VentVanitas]

I know this is technically the DPS forum but since this post kinda morphed into “devs explanations for job changes are either crap or non existent” can anyone explain why they changed the regen effects not generating agro beyond “YPYT gets angry healer drew agro with regen”

Of all the problems the healers have regen agro was not one of them, especially since the healers have just been that badly balanced since ShB

I'm gonna miss the skeletons in Orbonne immediately killing the healers because of regen aggro :'(

[fulminating]

I'm going to miss pulling with aurora because the circle shaped aoes are completely worthless, or being able to take over as tank from the completely useless paladin as a healer