Summoner changes that should happen onto 7.0

[Zykorberus]

The current way in which your rotation BEGINS with Bahamut makes no sense to me. Bahamut should be among your finishers, not the opener.

One should start with Garuda/Ifrit/Titan and AFTER those three are spent, THEN you "unlock" higher primals replacing the basic ones with Bahamut/Phoenix/Other (Alexander tentatively). Also, if Phoenix will do less damage than Bahamut, then it should either heal or regen self and/or party with EVERY spell to make it distinctive and worth building up to, not just a 2nd Bahamut phase with lesser damage.

The shield and buff from Carbuncle could also be upgraded during the "higher primals phase" into Phoenix-themed spells or, if those should be set apart from the existing ones, then they could upgrade into something like King Moogle Mog-themed spells with improved benefits.

That way you end up getting access to EIGHT primals overall.

The Carbuncle pet should periodically attack your target by itself (ranged or melee) when no other primal is out just as the Scholar's fairy heals the party on its own.

And mainly, AT LEAST improve the Physick like this:

At lvl 30, through a SMN-speciffic attribute/trait, the spell itself should either turn into an INT-scaling single-target heal, or an insta-cast time-limited window CD that let's you heal a percentage of the damage dealt during a set period of time so you don't have to divert from DPSing.

[aveyond-dreams]

No to anything Moogle related but yes to everything else.

[Eclipse12187]

In regards specifically to your Phoenix does less damage comment, Phoenix only does less damage if you get less than 5 gcds in during Phoenix phase, as fountain of fire does 100p more than astral impulse, making up for the damage lost from not having the 500p from death flare. Generally you want just enough spell speed to be able to hit 6 fires/impulses during phases which means Phoenix phase is actually 100p stronger in its current iteration.

And while thematically building up to bahamut/Phoenix fits much better, from a gameplay standpoint summoner would lose out on the opening burst they currently have and not have a true group burst window until 2 minutes into combat.

[baklava151]

The current way in which your rotation BEGINS with Bahamut makes no sense to me. Bahamut should be among your finishers, not the opener.

One should start with Garuda/Ifrit/Titan and AFTER those three are spent, THEN you "unlock" higher primals replacing the basic ones with Bahamut/Phoenix/Other (Alexander tentatively). Also, if Phoenix will do less damage than Bahamut, then it should either heal or regen self and/or party with EVERY spell to make it distinctive and worth building up to, not just a 2nd Bahamut phase with lesser damage.

+1, but I'd guess the reason it works the way it does is for SMN to catch raid buffs immediately. In fact the only two jobs that still have some buildup to their strongest attacks are DRG and MNK while everyone else can blow theirs in the opener immediately. I would still love if it worked the other way around for SMN though.

[Deveryn]

Bahamut opener makes sense as we were doing Dreadwyrm before that. Bahamut is the next logical step. Where we had 3 trances to run through, we now have two and it's a much better flow.

[Ggwppino]

Honestly, I would prefer that the other elemenentals not unlock them consequentially and thus inevitably usable, but as choices over garuda/titan/ifrit.

[Zykorberus]

In regards specifically to your Phoenix does less damage comment, Phoenix only does less damage if you get less than 5 gcds in during Phoenix phase, as fountain of fire does 100p more than astral impulse, making up for the damage lost from not having the 500p from death flare. Generally you want just enough spell speed to be able to hit 6 fires/impulses during phases which means Phoenix phase is actually 100p stronger in its current iteration.

And while thematically building up to bahamut/Phoenix fits much better, from a gameplay standpoint summoner would lose out on the opening burst they currently have and not have a true group burst window until 2 minutes into combat.

Let's say Phoenix has the same damage imput as Bahamut. Why have two primals with the exact same functionality anyway? Instead of granting more dmage to Phoenix to make it the same as Bahamut, why not give Phoenix something else that distinguishes it? Right now Phoenix and Bahamut are pretty much the same since the heal from phoenix makes no real difference and just feels like a DPS hinderance at this point. That's why I suggest lowering Phoenix's damage imput and isntead make it heal you a percentage of the damage it deals to make it different not only in name and appearance but also in functionality and thematically it woudl make sense for it to have a heal/damage duality.

[Zykorberus]

Bahamut opener makes sense as we were doing Dreadwyrm before that. Bahamut is the next logical step. Where we had 3 trances to run through, we now have two and it's a much better flow.

But it doesn't make sense to FIRST have access to Bahamut and Ifrit/Garuda/Titan until lvl90 when they aren't more powerful. Dreadwyrm is not really a valid argument since the job was entirely reworked. What doesn't make sense is to start with the strongest damage and then go downhill as you keep going. Takes away all relevance to the other primals and to Bahamut itself as well since there is no anticipation for what is supposed to be your most powerful skill/phase, which you should have to build up to and earn while leveling, not to just easily get it right away at lower lvls as Carbuncle.

Besides all casters build up to their strongest spells, they dont get access to them right away.

[Zykorberus]

Honestly, I would prefer that the other elemenentals not unlock them consequentially and thus inevitably usable, but as choices over garuda/titan/ifrit.

You mean like being able to just use them without having to be unllock? Yeah That's sounds good too. That would allow more combinations.

[Zykorberus]

+1, but I'd guess the reason it works the way it does is for SMN to catch raid buffs immediately. In fact the only two jobs that still have some buildup to their strongest attacks are DRG and MNK while everyone else can blow theirs in the opener immediately. I would still love if it worked the other way around for SMN though.

Not just DRG and MNK. Also BLM, RDM, WHM, SAM and RPR. So it's not an exception, it's actually the norm to build up tot he strongest skills. Rushing Bahamut as an opener and give access to it BEFORE the three elemental primals feels backwards and takes away relevance to Bahamut since it is treated as a standard spell/phase and also takes away relevance from Phoenix since it is exactly like another bahamut phase but with less damage. The three elemental primals also lose relevance since their attacks are not as strong and you can't open with them.

What doesn't makle sense is to have your strongest primal made available early and get lower damage primals at lvl 90 or to burst strong at start and go downhill from there as you keep fighting.