De-ranking in Crystal Conflict is a horrible idea

[Elkanah]

Until they add a way for a full party to que up for Crystal PVP-- I don't expect this to change anytime soon.

[GordonGeeko]

1) Sure, some players are just way better than others, so there will always be some RNG with your teammates, but if you get rid of the really bad ones, it should lead to more balanced games overall.

2) People who sit on low Crystal rating means they just want to settle for a basic Crystal portrait with a number on it or an achievement, which they probably got already since if you know how to press Recuperate you can already make it to Crystal. It doesn't scream competitive player made for the top 100 grind to me, which I can get if the rewards are underwhelming like they are now.

3) If you get infuriated by losing your rank instead of working to get better so you can make it back, competitive PVP is not for you. Oh no it's true, every other player on leaderboards probably got extremely lucky with their teammates and you kept getting the short end of the stick, obviously.

4) You might still get some fooling around. If some players got high enough that they think their new Crystal rating high is unlikely to move from the top 100, they might play around on other classes. But the highest rank of a competitive PVP mode is not where you are supposed to learn to play classes.

It's always a trade-off. If you let too many people in, sure you will have more games, but their quality will drop. So, do you want more games with all kinds of players or less games with people who deserve and want to be there ? I think the highest rank of a competitive game mode should only have the latter. There should be enough people playing PVP for it, it's never been too much of an issue in the past if the rewards are worth it.

The de-ranking + changes to matchmaking + penalties for withdrawing matches should lead to a better competitive PVP scene. I'm waiting on the rewards and hoping it's not just another set of portraits with "III" on them.

[AlanJust]

1)

Don't think your remember Bronze/Diamond hell, getting out of those ranks was tedious and insane, your win rate is much more likely determined by who you get, not how good you are.

2)

Not going to argue that the top 100 players aren't skilled, but tell me. If one of those players kept getting crappy teammates, would they reach the top 100? I really doubt it

3)

I got Crystal within the first few days of patch 6.1, I don't really care about getting on the leaderboard, what is concerning to me is the feeling of regressing despite giving it your all. Also, don't worship the top 100 people on the leaderboard, luck was a big factor in how they got where they are.

4) You might still get some fooling around. If some players got high enough that they think their new Crystal rating high is unlikely to move from the top 100, they might play around on other classes. But the highest rank of a competitive PVP mode is not where you are supposed to learn to play classes.

Absolutely, disagree. Fooling around is much less likely the higher you go. Top 100 will fight tooth and nail to keep their spot on the leaderboard and avoid losing points. Deranking is not even targeted at those players, it is targeted towards everyone at Platinum, trying to get to Crystal

It's always a trade-off. If you let too many people in, sure you will have more games, but their quality will drop. So, do you want more games with all kinds of players or less games with people who deserve and want to be there ? I think the highest rank of a competitive game mode should only have the latter. There should be enough people playing PVP for it, it's never been too much of an issue in the past if the rewards are worth it.

PvP was the most dead feature in FFXIV until Crystal Conflict, and why? as FFXIV is primarily a PvE game. PvE players enjoy winning at the end of the day through determination. De-ranking a PvE player is a bad idea, no one likes regression, especially unfair regressions. Filtering people for 'quality' will have you sit through 30+ mins of queue times. Rewards are just a temporary bait for people to play the mode, those who keep it alive are those who play it for fun.

The de-ranking + changes to matchmaking + penalties for withdrawing matches should lead to a better competitive PVP scene. I'm waiting on the rewards and hoping it's not just another set of portraits with "III" on them.

Aside from deranking, I definitely agree with the above.

[GordonGeeko]

Absolutely, disagree. Fooling around is much less likely the higher you go. Top 100 will fight tooth and nail to keep their spot on the leaderboard and avoid losing points. Deranking is not even targeted at those players, it is targeted towards everyone at Platinum, trying to get to Crystal

Not anymore. The new system implemented in 6.2 will use the highest rating you had for the leaderboards. Let's say you reached 3000 points once and you are now down all the way to Crystal 0. The system will consider you as a score of 3000 for the leaderboards. So you would have nothing to lose anymore and could play on different classes.

What was dead about PVP exactly ? If you mean Feast Training Matches, then sure, there was no reason to play those. But Feast high-rank was popping every night on most data centers with somewhat decent queue times (unless you were a tank). It had de-ranking and if you didn't make it high enough in time you could not play anymore (which is what is currently happening with Crystalline Conflict). But if you were Diamond, you'd get pops very frequently. You could find streamers on Aether or Primal having games non-stop every night. There is a competitive PVP community on all data centers.

It's not about worshipping the Top 100, it's knowing who is on there and having played against most of them and talked to them on Discord. They are way better than your average player and didn't get there by chance or by cheating (with a few exceptions, which are reported by the community because it's in everyone's interests to have them gone so you can have competitive matches). That's why some cheaters lost their Rank 1 spots.

[tsuchii]

100% this. I am giving up reaching crystal this season and will just settle to get all the rewards. The RNG for teammates is just beyond frustrating.

[Absimiliard]

3) If you get infuriated by losing your rank instead of working to get better so you can make it back, competitive PVP is not for you. Oh no it's true, every other player on leaderboards probably got extremely lucky with their teammates and you kept getting the short end of the stick, obviously.

One person can't carry a whole team unless the team they're playing against is already fodder. The current matchmaking system makes de-ranking through no fault of your own a very real and commonly seen possibility. Sure, you'll get to Crystal eventually if you just keep slamming your head against it, but people cursed with the bad luck to continually get awful teams are going to take an inordinate amount of time to get there. Far longer than is reasonable or acceptable.

[SeiyaSoiya]

I've seen peopel refuse to play pvp modes because they can derank, is that a common thing?

[Ransu]

I've seen peopel refuse to play pvp modes because they can derank, is that a common thing?

Its pretty common and I completely understand the sentiment. Its generally why I prefer fighting games over team games. In a 1v1 I'm in control of my rank. In a team game you can be decent but not good enough to always carry so it can easily lead to frustration. Its why I am pretty much always against solo ranked in team games. If you're gonna have a ranked mode it should be strictly groups/team rankings.

[VictorSpoils]

Okay but you need no hands to reach Crystal so your argument fails

Or just extra determination to play more games. Otherwise everyone would be in Crystal.

I've seen peopel refuse to play pvp modes because they can derank, is that a common thing?

Not making progress is pretty demotivating, which gets compounded by the threat of falling back to square one.

[GordonGeeko]

I lost exactly one game between Gold and Crystal. Must have gotten that crazy good teammate luck.