De-ranking in Crystal Conflict is a horrible idea

[Leathium]

It's a team mode flip a coin pvp kind of thing, I don't think there is much about looking up deaths, kills and damage can do you anything positive, sometimes a match get someone who has their game crashed or they just disconnect, there is simply no way you can actually win that fight 4 vs 5, it's simply impossible, even if you have the top 10 players in your 4 team, that are known for being extremely sweaty, the balance when one player is gone simply melt down quickly, you can easily notice how a one player can be downed in a matter of a second if like 2-3 players focus all their dps on that one specific player, which most of the teams don't follow, in other competitive pvp games such as CSGO, LoL, Smite, or Overwatch, you can still push and try harder and sweat to actually win the match if one player disconnected or quit, hell even one "skilled" player can actually carry the team to win that match, why? because "Being skilled" plays a huge factor in there, and these games are at least designed to have a competitive sense to it where good players can shine or at least do something or even pull a miracle, here? you just need to flip a coin once your queue pop and pray to the RNG gods that you will have a team that will actually try to win and not tilt and spam nice job after 1 of your team die in the first encounter or if the enemy team reach the first check point first, and yes I did lose some matches where I literally had the top 5 players in the leaderboard in my team, and you know what? they were terrible and playing like normal players you would meet in bronze, just trying to cheese the pld cover the most.

Speaking about my self I made it to crystal at the start of season 2, and you know what I did, I literally grinded matches, I was hard stuck in gold for quite sometime like a 4-5 days, then I started lucking out and made it to diamond with ease, then I stuck for 2 days in diamond and then lucked out and hit crystal, it was all RNG and luck, same as when you roll for your weekly loot, and hope you get a 90+ and then you roll something low as 10 or something, this pvp mode feels the same, the people who are all about "skill" in this easy to rank up system are full of you know what.

[Araxes]

Okay but you need no hands to reach Crystal so your argument fails

So 90 % of the pvp playerbase plays worse than disabled people or how is one to understand your comment? The majority never saw crystal but rather got stuck in platinum as far as i am aware but belittling the achievements of others doesnt make you appear superior in any way. It just makes you look like a douche.

You're 100% full of crap. Either you got carried or you were win trading. Then again for all we know, you could be using hacks too.

I busted my ass for two seasons and could not get out of bronze. 90% of the people in Crystal got carried and I have zero respect for any of them.

That is a bit extreme dont you think? Sure there were quite a few Traders and Cheaters but id place the numbers more like around 20-30 % based on my experience in Crystal and that might still be to high.

Speaking about my self I made it to crystal at the start of season 2, and you know what I did, I literally grinded matches, I was hard stuck in gold for quite sometime like a 4-5 days, then I started lucking out and made it to diamond with ease, then I stuck for 2 days in diamond and then lucked out and hit crystal, it was all RNG and luck,

Or maybe you got better grinding endless matches. Did that occur to you? Practice makes perfect and all that.

[ThaCa]

and here is why

• You have little control of the outcome as your teammates are RNG

• People who reach Crystal Rank are more likely to 'sit on it' and stop playing as they will probably not want to be de-ranked back to Diamond which also means less participation overall

• This system will infuriate and stress out people more than before, allowing for a ridiculous range of wins for you to actually get to Crystal, not fun

• The purpose of this system is meant to "stop people fooling around in Crystal rank" that's a very short-sighted fix

De-ranking would make sense in 1v1 or even 3v3, but you are only 1 in 5 people and there isn't much you can do

De-ranking will keep people out of the ranks they accidentally stumble upwards to due winstreak. They will not lose anything by keeping playing since the new patch will keep track of your highest ever achieved rank/score, once they streak to Crystal they get the rewards regardless.

The change to count the highest rating is an attempt to remedy the alt situation at the Crystal where people play like 2-3 characters and try to get them to high enough points to have at least one safe finish and keep swapping as they slowly go up.

Even though the changes should help against the Crystal 0 players, the matchmaking will probably still fill games with Diamonds to get the queues going which will result in similar situation of which team gets the worse Diamonds, unless there's suddenly big enough influx of players to support the higher Crystal games without outliers. One common suggestion was to start the Crystal rating at 1000 so it would give a better yield of players over time as the worse players drop towards 0, averages fluctuate around the 1000 and the better ones climb beyond.

As for the RNG, you can't do much about it at higher ranks if the player pool is small, on lower ranks you have so many people that if the system manages to get even teams rating wise, you can just perform better than your rating and have quite a good chance to win the game. Of course this is expecting that everyone else has reached their true rating.

For the lower ranks you will have more impact in the game if you are good, however the throw potential is also a lot larger since people have no idea how to play and you will still get unwinnable games. As it is, currently Crystal rank is much more about the grind than pure skill, but those that are good will get there way faster. As for the RNG you meet on your way, all it ever does is delay the players, my longest climb was my first one on a Bard and it took 70~ wins when the whole CC was new, my fastest one was with the most OP version of Black Mage and it took like 35 wins because I could carry almost every clueless team to victory with its BS abilities.

[Leathium]

Or maybe you got better grinding endless matches. Did that occur to you? Practice makes perfect and all that.

Nah can't say I "practiced", the current status of Crystal rank now is you can get up to 3400 crystal credit and then lose it all in a day if you get into a lose streak, basically getting bad luck and being matched with unbalanced matches because the matchmaking is acting up, good luck practicing that.

Again my crystal experience was basically reach 1400 credit, and lose it all down to 0, then go all the way up grind your luck (practicing more because this pvp mode is legit and balanced LOL) to reach 1400 point and then lose it all back.. yeah I don't think there is skill in there sorry.

[JamieRose]

That is a bit extreme dont you think? Sure there were quite a few Traders and Cheaters but id place the numbers more like around 20-30 % based on my experience in Crystal and that might still be to high.

Perhaps it is, but my tolerance for smug jackassery is at an all time low. I'm more than a bit tired of jerks who lucked into Crystal Rank telling me that I'm bad simply because I couldn't make a win streak magically appear. It's also well known that win trading is still happening.

It's not like I don't know how to play my job. The problem always comes down to the idiotic system of getting matched with people who don't try, or matched against people who are grossly overskilled. Leading to this ridiculous 50/50 crap which means I can never advance beyond Bronze because every win is followed by a loss. Given that, it makes the whole thing feel pointless and makes me not want to bother because I know I'm not able to advance.

So yeah, I'm a little bitter about it and if I get called out for being bad, which isn't true at all, I'm gonna respond negatively.

[Mistress_Irika]

PvP was the most dead feature in FFXIV until Crystal Conflict, and why? as FFXIV is primarily a PvE game. PvE players enjoy winning at the end of the day through determination. De-ranking a PvE player is a bad idea, no one likes regression, especially unfair regressions. Filtering people for 'quality' will have you sit through 30+ mins of queue times. Rewards are just a temporary bait for people to play the mode, those who keep it alive are those who play it for fun.

For the past 2 seasons a lot has been trying to get rid of any penalties for losing whatsoever, even in the Crystal tier, all because the RNG teammates is making them feel a certain way. It definitely doesnt help that the star system exist where deranking is not possible. That there is the true annoyance. Some sort of penalty needs to exist, but if everyone wants to play where penalties dont exist that's fine. Just remove rank mode, because now it becomes who has grinded the most that'll reap the rewards. Just know that the RNG teammates will probably still be there.

If it's only having fun that everyone cares about:

- Remove the leaderboard and any sort of rating that's out there. There's no reason for to compare yourself to others.
- Remove the top 100 rewards. The extra rewards doesnt matter just as long as everyone is able to obtain them.
- Remove chat restriction. Games would feel more relaxed if everyone was allowed to talk.
- Add the ability to premade. (Extremely debatable, but I'll add it regardless.) Quality of games shouldn't matter if winning is not the ultimate goal.

[Oni_Akuma]

Derank imo opinion is a good thing for Plat to Crystal. There are win traders everywhere.

If you look at thier victory statistics. Many top ranks shouldn't be up there. Why? Lets look at it from an analytical view.

You can not derank. So making smurfa/alts or friends q syncing makes the incentive very clear.
Now when in a pvp type of scenario, you rely on not only yourself but your teammates. So win rates will be skewed. Now when rising up in crystal, points vary from -100 to +100 and sometimes more than that depending on performance or something. I could be wrong.

But it's to avoid people in staying in one rank to boost their main character for clout.
You do notice plenty of low winning #s with high points? What is the possibility of winning above 70% of your matches. Very slim if being paired with more skillful players in a point battle. Even with a winning streak how likely is it to ramp up?

There has been a lot of that since the first pvp season of FFXIV. I don't mind the restart from Bronze. Plat will be the hard floor and people will need to skill up and not be fraudulent point seekers afterwards.

If this your first and only time being in PvP, based on game you've previously played, the level of thought in the skill expression slim to none compared to every other iteration of pvp beforehand.

[Osmond]

Perhaps it is, but my tolerance for smug jackassery is at an all time low. I'm more than a bit tired of jerks who lucked into Crystal Rank telling me that I'm bad simply because I couldn't make a win streak magically appear. It's also well known that win trading is still happening.

It's not like I don't know how to play my job. The problem always comes down to the idiotic system of getting matched with people who don't try, or matched against people who are grossly overskilled. Leading to this ridiculous 50/50 crap which means I can never advance beyond Bronze because every win is followed by a loss. Given that, it makes the whole thing feel pointless and makes me not want to bother because I know I'm not able to advance.

So yeah, I'm a little bitter about it and if I get called out for being bad, which isn't true at all, I'm gonna respond negatively.

I understand your pain. Ppl don’t even try to consider that point of view. I’m very curious to see how it turns out this week. If what they are cheering for is a good idea or a bad one. It always sounds good on paper…..ALWAYS. I just don’t have any hope of relying 4 other ppl to get to crystal on the reset lol.

[GordonGeeko]

Perhaps it is, but my tolerance for smug jackassery is at an all time low. I'm more than a bit tired of jerks who lucked into Crystal Rank telling me that I'm bad simply because I couldn't make a win streak magically appear. It's also well known that win trading is still happening.


So yeah, I'm a little bitter about it and if I get called out for being bad, which isn't true at all, I'm gonna respond negatively.

Not true based on what ? Your feelings ? Because if you can't make it out of Bronze you're trash.

[Absimiliard]

3) If you get infuriated by losing your rank instead of working to get better so you can make it back, competitive PVP is not for you. Oh no it's true, every other player on leaderboards probably got extremely lucky with their teammates and you kept getting the short end of the stick, obviously.

One person can't carry a whole team unless the team they're playing against is already fodder. The current matchmaking system makes de-ranking through no fault of your own a very real and commonly seen possibility. Sure, you'll get to Crystal eventually if you just keep slamming your head against it, but people cursed with the bad luck to continually get awful teams are going to take an inordinate amount of time to get there. Far longer than is reasonable or acceptable.