Some Smaller Ninja Changes

[aloneatsea]

snip

Given that thread is from Shadowbringers, and that we're about 8 months into Endwalker, it sure seems like you've done some gravedigging. The current threads have indeed been on people's discontentment with the changes in 6.1. Is it pointless to continue making thread after thread, post after post? Probably. Ninja hit an unfortunate perfect storm. It's the top DPS numbers-wise, and a shockingly large percentage of the playerbase only care about what numbers they can put out. It doesn't matter how a job is changed; if it deals more damage, it's a good change. Momentum was against us from the moment the patch dropped.

I don't think that the developers don't hear us. The Ninja thread on the JP side of the forums is equally as unhappy about the changes, with very similar complaints. The problem is that what we want -- this previous iteration of Ninja -- and what the developers want -- a neat, tidy, easy to balance set of almost-identical jobs -- are not compatible.


I do think it's important to note that a lot of the grievances the poster you linked have stated are actually problems that existed with the Ninja job before the 5.1 rework. I've seen a lot of sentiment across multiple threads across multiple years that Ninja does not satisfy their specific expectations of a 'Ninja' in an MMO, which is fascinating to me, given that Ninja is quite explicitly inspired by Naruto? Moving away from this design would be moving away from the class identity, not towards it.


I wasn't present for the pre-5.1 iteration of Shadowbringers Ninja, though; I started playing late into Patch 5.55. Because of this, I don't hold much affection for the prior iterations of Ninja, even if I can see concepts and abilities that excite me (and there are plenty of those). For me, I live in New Zealand. Until recently, the best ping I could get playing FFXIV was about 200, maybe 180 on a good day. It's common knowledge that higher ping means higher animation lock; it's impossible to double-weave on high ping. For a job like pre-5.1 Ninja, this renders it entirely unplayable due to a mechanic, unavoidable constraint. I would never have picked up FFXIV if not for that Ninja rework, frankly. Square Enix can thank that rework for the sub money I'm currently paying them.

The difference between that rework and the current changes is a reasonable argument for them. The Ninja changes in 5.1, are, at least to me, reasonable in that they enabled a far greater number of people to play the job whilst maintaining as much of the job identity as possible. GCD mudras were a big change, I'm sure. The APM most likely plunged. But people like me were able to pick the job up and succeed with it, where before it was previously impossible, simply because of where I lived and FFXIV's brilliant networking.

The current, 6.1 changes do not enable anyone. They do not benefit anyone, aside from perhaps the developers. It was not a change made with players in mind, and it did not fix any problems Ninja players (or would-be Ninja players) had with the job. The impact of these changes was the same -- a small, but significant change to how the job plays and what it's responsible for -- but for nothing.

If the developers intended those changes to benefit Ninja players, I would expect them to fix the Ninki generation issue sooner. I would expect them to improve their networking such that mudra inputs don't get eaten if you press them slightly too quickly after your last weaponskill. I would expect that they increase the potencies on Hellfrog Medium, Katon, and Goka Mekkyaku, to allow them to be used in a two-target rotation, as opposed to relegating half of Ninja's kit to dungeons and dungeons alone. There are no three-target raid bosses in modern FFXIV.

I can understand if our vision for the job doesn't align with the developers. I would estimate it is actually fairly rare that a genuinely good suggestion comes from the forums. We are not game developers, and the suggestions we make are likely rife with unseen issues. The problem comes when the developers, who have branded themselves as they who listen to their fanbase above all other developers, become cagey when it is asked why unpopular changes were made. The developers know very well that the SAM and NIN changes were unpopular. The developers know very well that SAM and NIN mains want either a reversion or a damn good explanation as to why they're cutting us down. And yet they remain silent.

I'll eat my words if we see some good news tomorrow when the Patch Notes drop, but whichever direction the developers intend to take jobs from now on does not excite me. When I first joined this game, Patch Notes were exciting. Will my favourite job get buffed? What new abilities will I get to play around with? Now, I am simply filled with dread. There is a misalignment between what I (and other raiders) want from jobs, and what the developers intend to give. But our opinions don't matter, in the end. FFXIV is still big. Casual content will keep money coming in. Because it is about money, in the end.



More to the topic of your thread, since I've derailed enough, the changes I'd like to see:
- Removal of the party buff on Mug. Even better if they kill the ability entirely. In my opinion, it's a very small change to put it back on Trick.

- The removal of Raijus. While I think they're a cool ability and fun to use, they remove so much potential for other elements in Ninja's kit, eating up power budget and GCD slots within Trick.

- A return to some kind of DOT. I'm baffled that Ninja doesn't have some kind of poison DOT, frankly. I'd love to see a return to Stormblood form, with our DOT being a branching combo from our regular GCDs. You'd always want to put a refresh in Trick, but that conflicts with how starved we are for open GCD slots in Trick right now, what with so many Raijus. I like having to keep something up, though. Leads to some fun optimisation.

- Bring back prepull Doton. Punishing players for creative optimisation is not a fun or engaging way to moderate your game. "No, you're not playing Ninja the correct way."


- More varied oGCDs and less Ninki gain overall. Frankly, I'm tired of pushing Bhavacakra. We generate so much Ninki at the moment it's ridiculous. Between Mug, and +15 every third GCD, we're rolling in more Ninki than ever. The job stays busy, but we're just hitting the same buttons. I'd love some variety. We have plenty of retired oGCDs to pick from (hi Jugulate, Assassinate, Duality etc), so why not?


- Extension of the Huton timer. This might sound like an odd gripe, but there is a specific cutscene (in TEA, the transition from Alexander Prime -> Perfect Alexander) where refreshing Huton at the right time would allow you to maintain it without dropping it over the duration of the cutscene. With the current, 60s timer, you cannot maintain Huton across the cutscene. It just... feels really bad. Having a slightly longer duration would offer a bit more flexibility in when you could refresh it/make it a bit easier for newer Ninja players. Hitting Huraijin feels, frankly, really bad. It's like a punishment button for being bad at Ninja, except... they made it arbitrarily harder. If we see a 55+s cutscene in P8S, I'll be really sad unless this is changed.

A lot of my suggestions sound like reverts -- because, well, they are, for the most part. I play this job to the detriment of all others jobs; I really only swap if I want to learn how another class functions to better support my Ninja play. Having gone through the transition from Shadowbringers Ninja to Endwalker Ninja, a lot of these changes just... don't feel good for one reason or another. Death by a thousand cuts, I suppose. The job incrementally gets worse over time, with each increment being "not a big deal" individually, until it all stacks up and you realise the job no longer brings you any joy. A... pessimistic view of my future, I suppose.

I don't think they'll actually implement any of my suggestions. The party buff shituation is unlikely to improve as we head closer and closer to tank-levels of homogeneity. If we're really lucky, we might get a DOT back in 7.0. It'd have to be as a capstone, though, or as an additional effect on an already-existing ability. I don't think they want to add too many more GCDs.
Raijus definitely won't leave anytime soon, much as they are a detriment to the class. Ninja's two-target rotation is, similarly, unlikely to recover. They're cause and consequence, you see.
More varied oGCDs? Maybe in 7.0. I'd expect at least one.
The Huton timer change? I don't know. They really seem to want everything to align to their perfect two-minute schedule. It feels very suffocating.
And Doton? Lol. I don't even have any words for that beyond "kick us while we're down".