Expert Dungeons

[DrWho2010]

other sides of the coin are valid opinions to have too. i just feel after playing this game since 2013 i have a pretty good feeling internally for what seem like requests that would be fulfilled and which won't. that's all. and this is one request where i just don't see them moving or budging on it.

while yes they have adjusted things that have been seemingly "set in stone" more and more these days, expert roulette has had this same complaint over and over and over again every patch. I guess we'll see if they finally decide to change it or not, but all the stink before hasn't done much up til now.

[Packetdancer]

Putting on my game-developer/designer hat for a moment...

I strongly suspect that if you just add all the capped dungeons to a single roulette, people do not actually run that roulette more often. Meaning that as the expansion ages, the endgame dungeons will fill more slowly for folks just now getting there because you're spreading (hypothetically) the same number of roulettes being run across more dungeons. By splitting it into two -- the level 90 capstone and the current expert -- you can double-dip on the people who routinely run all their roulettes daily, using them to fill out the party for two runs of the endgame dungeons, rather than just one.

Moreover, for folks that don't raid, the expert roulette being limited to the most recent two dungeons keeps some focus on the dungeons likely to drop more useful gear for those folks, meaning they can run those dungeons more readily (as there's a separate pool dedicated to filling parties out for specifically those dungeons).

I get tired of the same two dungeons in Expert roulette myself as an expansion ages, but I can absolutely see reasons for this from a design standpoint.

[Avoidy]

Regarding the original topic, I'm not a fan of this change either. I scrolled through the patch notes and kinda just... looked at the dungeon list and felt sad. Expert already sucked, but at least there was the potential for variety. Not anymore, I guess. Oh well. Just ANOTHER roulette I won't bother doing from here on out. Put it in the pile with alliance raid roulette (aka crystal tower roulette), leveling roulette when I don't need exp (because 90% of the time it's COPPERBELL MINES), msqr (literally no reason to do this unless you're leveling, and even then I have to really hype myself up to do it), 50607080 roulette (aka snowcloak roulette) and normal raid roulette ever since I unlocked HW raids, because now all I get is Alexander 2, aka the hallway add fiesta.

Literally the term roulette is a misnomer in this game; all I get every day are the same handful of unfun dungeons and raids from that cursed part of the game where your kit is total trash and your party are free-trial bots who run into walls. I literally had a copperbell the other day (again!) and the tank and healer had nearly the same gibberish name and both immediately turned around and left the dungeon without saying a word. Literal bots that queued into the general queue by mistake. The DPS and I just stared at each other. I waited 12 minutes in queue for that. To hell with it!

Moreover, for folks that don't raid, the expert roulette being limited to the most recent two dungeons keeps some focus on the dungeons likely to drop more useful gear for those folks, meaning they can run those dungeons more readily (as there's a separate pool dedicated to filling parties out for specifically those dungeons).

I agree with everything else you wrote, but I wanted to quote this part because as someone who doesn't do high end content, I still find current-dungeon gear basically worthless stat-wise since the buyable crafted sets are better (and they also get pretty affordable after like, 3 days of people undercutting each other), and even the stuff I acquired in the previous patch will be better. Someone returning to the game after a looooong break might try and farm that stuff but they'd be better off just earning gil and buying a crafted set from the previous patch and then augmenting it in Radz At Han.

It's always really disappointing too. I get why it's done, to keep crafted gear relevant, but it sucks when a new dungeon comes out and literally everything in it is vastly inferior to the stuff you just bought on the market or casually acquired last patch. I'm really not sure who that gear is intended for.

[Reap00]

if you don't like expert roulette don't do expert roulette. there are many other ways/methods to obtain casuality tomestones for weekly capping. hunts/treasure maps/deep dungeon/HoH, etc etc.

That makes to much sense man. Stop that.

[Ransu]

It would be nice if we got hard mode dungeons again and the expert roulettes were only hard mode dungeons.

[Packetdancer]

I agree with everything else you wrote, but I wanted to quote this part because as someone who doesn't do high end content, I still find current-dungeon gear basically worthless stat-wise since the buyable crafted sets are better (and they also get pretty affordable after like, 3 days of people undercutting each other), and even the stuff I acquired in the previous patch will be better.

While true, I know a lot of people who have many jobs at cap and lack the gil to get multiple sets of current crafted gear, so who do actually use the gear from whatever the current endgame dungeon is.

I know people with multiple level 90 jobs who don't even have 1 million gil. (I don't understand how, considering gil basically falls from the sky in this game, but they do exist.) Right now, the HQ crafted Classical gear on my server goes for between, I'd say, 240k and about 300k per set. Which is super cheap by the standards of gear for those first few days when a new tier lands, but if it represents a third of your total available gil, it's still going to be a sobering cost. And let's say you have GNB, SCH(/SMN), SAM, and RPR at 90... that's potentially five different sets of gear.

Gear from the current endgame dungeon is hardly the ideal method, as you note, or the most efficient. But it is something which nonetheless is relevant for some people... and as a game designer, you cannot rely on assumptions about the player crafting market. You need to have a viable -- even if less-optimal -- alternate path for someone to gear up.

[Supersnow845]

That makes to much sense man. Stop that.

Again why should people deprive themselves of content just because of squares bad game design

Nobody likes the two dungeons in the expert, the two camps are basically
-fix it to include all 90 dungeons
-eh I don’t really care

Nobody is arguing that 2 dungeons in a roulette is good game design so maybe they could fix it rather than just say “how bout you have even less of the very lacklustre level 90 content”

[Striker44]

Again why should people deprive themselves of content just because of squares bad game design

Nobody likes the two dungeons in the expert, the two camps are basically
-fix it to include all 90 dungeons
-eh I don’t really care

Nobody is arguing that 2 dungeons in a roulette is good game design so maybe they could fix it rather than just say “how bout you have even less of the very lacklustre level 90 content”

Actually, there have been a few posts here already specifically pointing out why it makes sense and can be beneficial from a design standpoint. It also helps if your posts stop claiming opinions as facts. You aren't an arbiter of what is good, bad, or "lacklustre" (sic).

[Vatom]

Eh I would be fine with less dungeons if they did go further with what they said they were going to do when getting 2 dungeons.
I don't feel any of them are dynamic or even thought worthy. Only time I consider thinking is when Im DRK or SGE but even then its like eh not sweating it.
The last dungeon that really had my attention was the burn back in StB but I believe they nerfed it.
He to criterion dungeons hopefully it brings the love back to it.

[Supersnow845]

Actually, there have been a few posts here already specifically pointing out why it makes sense and can be beneficial from a design standpoint. It also helps if your posts stop claiming opinions as facts. You aren't an arbiter of what is good, bad, or "lacklustre" (sic).

The only person I’ve seen explaining how it’s good game design about milking roulette clearers for more level 90 dungeons is a fair enough point but it’s not really beneficial to the player and I’ve yet to see a player argue it’s good design from the player perspective

And lacklustre is my opinion, though since we are in the middle of one of the worst content droughts we have ever been in I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion at all