DRK vs. WAR: how do they compare?

[fulminating]

A tier where Warrior's can't brain off cheese everything.

Good, keep doing this.

If only the entire tier was real damage too, dark knight wouldn’t still be able to cheese everything either.

[Oizen]

If only the entire tier was real damage too, dark knight wouldn’t still be able to cheese everything either.

Magic damage confirmed fake damage?

[Travel]

Surprised this topic is still going; I posted this one a long time ago, now! Might as well post my two cents on what I have, currently; which isn't much...

Me, personally; I am interested in seeing how DRK and WAR are both going to play in the future; I'm still in the process of leveling both (as in, I haven't done a single thing on DRK since I first posted this, and I'm literally on the first WAR quest right now as I'm typing) so I can't much for how the jobs perform right now. However, assuming the devs are going to continue pushing the jobs the same way they have been - DRK is basically the "glass cannon" tank from what I've found, whereas WAR is "paste eater" - I can't help but feel the two are going to continue to be the relative same in the future.

For gameplay purposes, it looks like DRK is better for late game content, while WAR is more for soloing older stuff. Is that correct?

[Casualty]

For gameplay purposes, it looks like DRK is better for late game content, while WAR is more for soloing older stuff. Is that correct?

I wouldn't really look at it from that generalization. Right now, both are good and can do just about anything, just like the other tanks. DRK/GNB had an edge on overtuned P8S over WAR/PLD, which showed the disparity of DPS at the upper level for the first week of content, where every little bit of damage was needed (and honestly, probably wouldn't have been such a big deal if other classes weren't similarly undertuned). The community is geared at a point where that no longer matters, and WAR has received two rounds of potency buffs. Right now, going off of clears, it looks like WAR is more used in things like Criterion dungeons, where there is more opportunity for self heals to shine. PLD is still trying to find it's place in the current 2 minute meta, and hopefully does so without losing what makes it unique.

[Marxam]

Me, personally; I am interested in seeing how DRK and WAR are both going to play in the future;

I think they should consider splitting the tanks back into flat mit and ehp mit i.e. Shield Oath tanks and Defiance tanks. PLD/GNB can be the current tank mastery (shield oath) while WAR/DRK will be 25% HP increase and 20% convalescence (defiance). It would diversify the tanks into two categories similar to how the healers are regen/shields. It would also buff skills like TBN, ToB, SiO and Equilibrium. It would also play into WAR's self healing as the constant spike dmg pairs well with its ability to self heal. Though TBN might be a bit too strong if DRK had an extra 25% HP above the other tanks but maybe not since you only have a larger HP pool and no passive mitigation like PLD/GNB.

I just want to see them mix up the tank stances a bit because ever since the ShB changes I question why tanks even have a dedicated tank stance when you can just bake the job gauge into the job itself and make the tank stance a role skill since it universally functions as an enmity buff and nothing more. I'm personally tired of the 5+ years we will have with the tanks stances the way they are and am not looking to another 2 more years of that.

[Absurdity]

I think they should consider splitting the tanks back into flat mit and ehp mit i.e. Shield Oath tanks and Defiance tanks. PLD/GNB can be the current tank mastery (shield oath) while WAR/DRK will be 25% HP increase and 20% convalescence (defiance). It would diversify the tanks into two categories similar to how the healers are regen/shields. It would also buff skills like TBN, ToB, SiO and Equilibrium. It would also play into WAR's self healing as the constant spike dmg pairs well with its ability to self heal. Though TBN might be a bit too strong if DRK had an extra 25% HP above the other tanks but maybe not since you only have a larger HP pool and no passive mitigation like PLD/GNB.

I just want to see them mix up the tank stances a bit because ever since the ShB changes I question why tanks even have a dedicated tank stance when you can just bake the job gauge into the job itself and make the tank stance a role skill since it universally functions as an enmity buff and nothing more. I'm personally tired of the 5+ years we will have with the tanks stances the way they are and am not looking to another 2 more years of that.

We would run into issues with mechanics like the current tank busters, where 20% DR would be simply superior to 20% more max HP + 20% more healing due to how the DoT works.

But in general I agree with you, the current tank stances are just an incredibly boring enmity buff that might as well just be a role action.

[Marxam]

25% HP is roughly equivalent to 20% flat mit. There's a bit of middle ground there where the numbers get nit picky but ultimately what you will get is more synergy with the healers, i.e. SGE/SCH with WAR/DRK and WHM/AST with PLD/GNB. There is a reason why the SCH quests are tied to the MRD/WAR guild and why good PF SCH's put protraction + crit adlo + deploy before a pull. You can also test this yourself since WAR basically has a weaker version of what I'm suggesting in ToB. I've seen 0 dmg from the first spark in P7S with my current i629 gear and ToB and protraction (though its multiplicative).

Personally I never found an issue with these two types of passive mitigations and we've had them in game for almost 6 years before it was removed in ShB with minor issues. Tank cds have also never been as powerful as they are now so mitigation is honestly not really an issue for tanks but rather the party as those raidwides will kill them if not reprisal, especially in week 1 gear. There's always pros and cons but the fact that they exists means there is a choice instead of the illusion of choice.

Assuming they continue with this heavy mitigation meta for raid dmg, bigger shields for the party is only going to be a benefit to all and brining Defiance's effect back will help in that.

[Travel]

I have a few things to ask, if you don't mind.

The first is concerning lag; I've got quite a bit of latency on my end, but I was kinda wanting to run DRK as my Tank of choice. I wasn't really going to be running it as my main job for multiplayer stuff, mostly just for Trials and doing hunts and FATEs with it. Basically, how badly would latency screw over DRK?

The second, which is more of an admission of crappiness on my end; anyone else have trouble remembering to use your defense cooldowns? I've ran several dungeons here recently as both DRK and WAR and I kept forgetting to active my defensive stuff y accident - believe me, my team wasn't happy, and I don't blame them in the slightest. As a DPS main for... pretty much since I first started the game, actually, I never really had to focus on defense, just pumping out as much damage as possible, and I admit that probably screwed my learning curve quite a bit.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I have a few things to ask, if you don't mind.

The first is concerning lag; I've got quite a bit of latency on my end, but I was kinda wanting to run DRK as my Tank of choice. I wasn't really going to be running it as my main job for multiplayer stuff, mostly just for Trials and doing hunts and FATEs with it. Basically, how badly would latency screw over DRK?

The second, which is more of an admission of crappiness on my end; anyone else have trouble remembering to use your defense cooldowns? I've ran several dungeons here recently as both DRK and WAR and I kept forgetting to active my defensive stuff y accident - believe me, my team wasn't happy, and I don't blame them in the slightest. As a DPS main for... pretty much since I first started the game, actually, I never really had to focus on defense, just pumping out as much damage as possible, and I admit that probably screwed my learning curve quite a bit.

For your first point, if you're not doing Ex trials and Savage where there is DPS checks, it really doesn't matter, especially in FATEs. Like honestly hit a striking dummy get used to how the rotation feels and be your own judge if your GCD clips too much. But overall as long as you can double weave without horrendously clipping your GCD you're fine in most content.

While there are plenty of tanks that don't use their cooldowns, do get in the habit of using them, it is griefing your party, as much as a healer not using any healing abilities or spells, while you can get away with it a bit more than a healer can, do keep it in mind when doing content. Obviously tanks do play different from DPS in some regards, just a matter of getting used to it, but at least you acknowledge in your self admittance that you messed up, which is good, you're aware of it, which means you can improve as you play tanks more, can't always say the same for some DF tanks.