White Mage Attraction

[Supersnow845]

I used to label Lilybell as "overheal plant" back at expansion launch, but I now I'd disagree and it's actually a really strong ability with plenty of practical applications. You don't have to get the full 2k potency from it every use. I think Lilybell gets so much hate because we're just tired of WHM being bad and it's not a fix for the main issues. But as a standalone ability, it's amazing.

Interestingly enough it's not great on FoF though (400 potency isn't guaranteed to full heal) and better held for FoA. SCH's the FoF king.

WHM badly needs mitigation imo. Without raid mitigation WHM will always be undesirable in harder content.

The worst you can get out of lilybell is 1000 potency and getting that as a single AOE heal is still very much questionable when it could ever actually be necessary because of how delayed bursts of damage are in the game, though you are right lilybell isn’t really the problem WHM is the problem as per usual

SCH with seraph for FOF is bonkers I agree but I’ve never had a problem with lilybell not fully healing you in FOF to the point that it’s better than trying to get the AST or the SGE to do anything useful there

[UkcsAlias]

a 15,000 potency heal is useless compared to mitigation

Because the value is simply excessive in this case. Your argument would also have worked fine with a value of 2000.

Mitigation and direct healing both still have an effective potency. And healing generaly does end up higher than most 10% damage reduction effects. But healing only lacks 1 thing: building a buffer. 10% damage reduction at 100%hp, still gives an effective 110% hp. And shield healers can on that maintain that buffer in a very stable way.

But as most attacks have significant delays between them and generaly dont exceed the 100% (or they massively exceed it causing targets to die even with protection buffs), healing between these attacks can matter. But this demands instant healing when demanded to properly work. And up to level 80, WHM only has 1 ability for this. While AST has 3 (although most of them are conditional).

Thats why the healing of WHM feels underwhelming, and why its just useless overhealing. It lacks control.

[Supersnow845]

Because the value is simply excessive in this case. Your argument would also have worked fine with a value of 2000.

Mitigation and direct healing both still have an effective potency. And healing generaly does end up higher than most 10% damage reduction effects. But healing only lacks 1 thing: building a buffer. 10% damage reduction at 100%hp, still gives an effective 110% hp. And shield healers can on that maintain that buffer in a very stable way.

But as most attacks have significant delays between them and generaly dont exceed the 100% (or they massively exceed it causing targets to die even with protection buffs), healing between these attacks can matter. But this demands instant healing when demanded to properly work. And up to level 80, WHM only has 1 ability for this. While AST has 3 (although most of them are conditional).

Thats why the healing of WHM feels underwhelming, and why its just useless overhealing. It lacks control.

You’ve missed my point entirely here, mitigation is always more useful than reactionary healing because it doesn’t matter how strong your heals are if you get one shot your healing is absolutely useless which is why WHM is such a garbage healer in higher end content, high potency healing is not a niche, it’s not needed and it’s just a waste

It’s not so much WHM can control it’s healing just that it’s not needed, why would I would want plenary cure 3 when kerachole gives me the mitigation needed to survive the raidwide and it’s regen can fully tick because damage is spaced in this game

[vetch]

A major problem with threads like these is that forum posters approach the problems with the job by assuming the devs are thinking about whether the job feels fun to play and what would make it feel fun, but the developers actually approach the problems with the job by... checking aggregated player data to see whether Key Performance Indicators like 'number of players playing the job at X level' are being met, and White Mage will never fail to meet those KPIs because it's the iconic Final Fantasy healer, so there is no problem with the job.

It has the red and white robes, it has the canes, it has the cuteness, it has the flashy white magic. It's distilled nostalgia. Of course everyone wants to play a White Mage. So it receives only the most basic changes: numbers tweaks and a couple flashy-but-superfluous new heals each expansion to inveigle people to buy the expac. Why would it get more? All the KPIs say that it's doing fine.

[Supersnow845]

A major problem with threads like these is that forum posters approach the problems with the job by assuming the devs are thinking about whether the job feels fun to play and what would make it feel fun, but the developers actually approach the problems with the job by... checking aggregated player data to see whether Key Performance Indicators like 'number of players playing the job at X level' are being met, and White Mage will never fail to meet those KPIs because it's the iconic Final Fantasy healer, so there is no problem with the job.

It has the red and white robes, it has the canes, it has the cuteness, it has the flashy white magic. It's distilled nostalgia. Of course everyone wants to play a White Mage. So it receives only the most basic changes: numbers tweaks and a couple flashy-but-superfluous new heals each expansion to inveigle people to buy the expac. Why would it get more? All the KPIs say that it's doing fine.

WHM is a problem because no matter how much the sylphies gpose with wings in ill mheg WHM drags collective healer design down and has done so since HW

if people want the iconic job so bad then just make it a damn limited job so they can gpose in it without it completely destroying the healers because of its everlasting popularity

[ForteNightshade]

WHM is a problem because no matter how much the sylphies gpose with wings in ill mheg WHM drags collective healer design down and has done so since HW

if people want the iconic job so bad then just make it a damn limited job so they can gpose in it without it completely destroying the healers because of its everlasting popularity

To be fair, they aren't wrong in their assessment. The devs likely aren't approaching White Mage, or several of the jobs, with the same mindset veteran players are. Their primary concerns are:

1. Overall job popularity
2. Ease of accessibility to new players
3. Job fantasy

The current design accomplishes all three, albeit in the most mundane and uninspired way possible. I've long been of the opinion the devs idea of how healers play (or how they want them to) is by allowing them a chance to wait around for outgoing to damage to plan out heals, holding oGCDs for emergencies and only occasionally contributing damage. They know the high end players are far more aggressive, though I doubt they actually realize just how little you can actually get away with not healing. Nonetheless, jobs aren't designed with good or even average players in mind. They're designed around players who barely have an understanding how anything functions and will panic with the slightest bit of complexity. That WHM freaking out because the tank dropped to 80% and keeping Medica II up almost by the second? That's who they care about.

[vetch]

WHM is a problem because no matter how much the sylphies gpose with wings in ill mheg WHM drags collective healer design down and has done so since HW

if people want the iconic job so bad then just make it a damn limited job so they can gpose in it without it completely destroying the healers because of its everlasting popularity

Why would they make the most iconic Final Fantasy healer unable to complete the MSQ? That would hurt their KPIs and create problems for the dev team where they currently see none.

[Gemina]

HOT’s aren’t even WHM’s “niche” (not that WHM actually has a niche but eh), if they were going to have regens on only one healer it should be AST, not that that situation should ever arise

I think what makes it a pure healer's "niche" is the percentage of heals that come from HoTs. And this percentage tends to go up along with the healing requirements of any given encounter. Pure healers also use the GCD as a resource for some of their HoT abilities. It is more compartmentalized now in EW.

The problem with WHM is that it doesn't do anything all the other healers can't do whilst lacking the utility of shielding and buffing.

Healers are pretty homogenized TBH. There are variations to some of their skills, and there are some situations where one healer will have an advantage over another, but it is only slightly so, and nothing that any of the other healers can't handle, just less efficient. The exception to this is AST. Their card mech makes AST the only true niche healer because it requires consistent interaction from the player. It also ramps up their APM.
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The job gauges of the other three healers are pretty much entirely passive, requiring little to no interaction from the healer. I can't speak for all healers, and especially more experienced AST, but I have to abandon the cards in healing intense scenarios. It takes my focus off where it needs to be, and the benefits from astrodyne don't warrant that focus either. Due to this, I have no doubt that giving any other healer an interactive job gauge would cause the exact same issue. While I don't claim to be the best healer, I can still confidently state that if I have that problem, I know other casual healers will also.

The disconnect between players and devs that I see is actually due to lack of transparency from the dev team. I have absolutely no doubt that a decision like removing Divination from the card mechanic and replacing it with a lackluster Astrodyne was made exactly for the reason in the above statement. I think the dev team even stated that they did not want group DPS to suffer as a result of bad RNG from played cards. I think they're just sugarcoating that many AST lose focus on even executing Divination at all in its previous state. And now, if an AST isn't consistently using Astrodyne, it really isn't that big of a deal, especially in casual content.

With that in mind in regards to WHM, players will pick it up under the impression that it is the most straight forward healer, and the easiest to play. But healing in general is pretty straight forward; and it is easy until it isn't. That is what a player learns over time.

[Supersnow845]

I think what makes it a pure healer's "niche" is the percentage of heals that come from HoTs. And this percentage tends to go up along with the healing requirements of any given encounter. Pure healers also use the GCD as a resource for some of their HoT abilities. It is more compartmentalized now in EW.


Healers are pretty homogenized TBH. There are variations to some of their skills, and there are some situations where one healer will have an advantage over another, but it is only slightly so, and nothing that any of the other healers can't handle, just less efficient. The exception to this is AST. Their card mech makes AST the only true niche healer because it requires consistent interaction from the player. It also ramps up their APM.
==========

The job gauges of the other three healers are pretty much entirely passive, requiring little to no interaction from the healer. I can't speak for all healers, and especially more experienced AST, but I have to abandon the cards in healing intense scenarios. It takes my focus off where it needs to be, and the benefits from astrodyne don't warrant that focus either. Due to this, I have no doubt that giving any other healer an interactive job gauge would cause the exact same issue. While I don't claim to be the best healer, I can still confidently state that if I have that problem, I know other casual healers will also.

The disconnect between players and devs that I see is actually due to lack of transparency from the dev team. I have absolutely no doubt that a decision like removing Divination from the card mechanic and replacing it with a lackluster Astrodyne was made exactly for the reason in the above statement. I think the dev team even stated that they did not want group DPS to suffer as a result of bad RNG from played cards. I think they're just sugarcoating that many AST lose focus on even executing Divination at all in its previous state. And now, if an AST isn't consistently using Astrodyne, it really isn't that big of a deal, especially in casual content.

With that in mind in regards to WHM, players will pick it up under the impression that it is the most straight forward healer, and the easiest to play. But healing in general is pretty straight forward; and it is easy until it isn't. That is what a player learns over time.

Though the strongest healer on a HOT basis is SGE so it’s not even really a pure healer niche, they just happen to have it on their GCD

[Gemina]

Though the strongest healer on a HOT basis is SGE so it’s not even really a pure healer niche, they just happen to have it on their GCD

It's not about the strongest, and never was. And even if it was, this can easily can change from one patch to the next with a flick of a wrist from the devs. If we want to there, I can say WHM and AST can both shield ST better than a SCH. As I said in my previous post, I believe it's the percentage of their overall healing and that they have ready access to their HoTs via the GCD.

Again though, nothing is really "niche" with the healers with the exception of AST card mech.