It is not possible to play without doing dps as healer? every day i find someone...

[Supersnow845]

Wasn't trying to do anything of the sort. Of course a run goes faster if a monster dies. Literal basic logic. The longer it lives, the more risk of something bad happening, sure. I feel like we've just met different types of healers who don't do DPS I suppose, so I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Just like when I see a tank not popping CDs during big pulls, or a off tank not popping defensives on a main tank or other party members to try and help them out, or a DPS standing in avoidable AoE and clearly turning with their keyboard to move (rather than just using mouse camera movement to move). I don't just assume they are being lazy I guess. If you don't either, thats great. If someone clearly has the ability to do what ever it is they need to do but are just not, then again, I agree, thats crappy of them.

Not saying you're taking a stance against older player/what ever players, but it just sounded like you just default to "Oh great a lazy ass player" when sometimes its not like that.

Saying “if I see a non DPS healer I give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are old or disabled or have some reasons that’s not “I’m lazy”” is just problematic, you are basically excusing bad play as assumption of a condition someone can’t fix who oftentimes play far better than these crappy players

[FakeCirka]

Saying “if I see a non DPS healer I give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are old or disabled or have some reasons that’s not “I’m lazy”” is just problematic, you are basically excusing bad play as assumption of a condition someone can’t fix who oftentimes play far better than these crappy players

Since you clearly want a response, I'll give you one on this one.

I don't find it problematic to not assume someone is just being lazy when it comes to normal content and to instead feel "there could be a reason that I don't know". I honestly think that if anyone is getting angry to the point they are typing in chat to another player over their playstyle in content that is literally meant to be cleared by literally everyone regardless of skill level, then maybe they need to take a break and go have a shower lol. If the anger comes in Savage clearing, I understand that more, its content that you are NOT forced to do in any way, and at that point it is pretty rude to other players to go in not fully utilizing your jobs abilities.

I will never think its fine to be rude to other players because "they suck at their job" in normal content. Theres just SO many reasons outside of "lazy" that could cause someone to be "not so good" at their job. Maybe they are trying a new job or a new role out and they are not someone who can just pick up on things super fast. Maybe they disabled. Maybe they are old. Maybe someone in their life just died and they are just not playing that great because they are sad. Maybe its their first MMO. Maybe its their first video game and their nephew or niece convinced them to try it out to play with them. Who the eff knows lol. If you feel differently, you can, but I feel that makes you kind of a terrible person if you default to being mean to players in, lets be real, baby content lol.

You can argue about healers not doing DPS in normal content all you want, but its no different than tanks not properly rotating defensives or DPS not following mechanics or doing positionals.

[Supersnow845]

Since you clearly want a response, I'll give you one on this one.

I don't find it problematic to not assume someone is just being lazy when it comes to normal content and to instead feel "there could be a reason that I don't know". I honestly think that if anyone is getting angry to the point they are typing in chat to another player over their playstyle in content that is literally meant to be cleared by literally everyone regardless of skill level, then maybe they need to take a break and go have a shower lol. If the anger comes in Savage clearing, I understand that more, its content that you are NOT forced to do in any way, and at that point it is pretty rude to other players to go in not fully utilizing your jobs abilities.

I will never think its fine to be rude to other players because "they suck at their job" in normal content. Theres just SO many reasons outside of "lazy" that could cause someone to be "not so good" at their job. Maybe they are trying a new job or a new role out and they are not someone who can just pick up on things super fast. Maybe they disabled. Maybe they are old. Maybe someone in their life just died and they are just not playing that great because they are sad. Maybe its their first MMO. Maybe its their first video game and their nephew or niece convinced them to try it out to play with them. Who the eff knows lol. If you feel differently, you can, but I feel that makes you kind of a terrible person if you default to being mean to players in, lets be real, baby content lol.

You can argue about healers not doing DPS in normal content all you want, but its no different than tanks not properly rotating defensives or DPS not following mechanics or doing positionals.

I’m gonna put this part at the top because you love to only read half my comments

As someone who has a person with a disability in my static and someone who regularly plays with older people in my FC, they don’t want you using them as a shield for bad play in this game, they work hard to improve, they like trying their best and they don’t want to be associated with no DPS healers because that’s what you see them capable of

But now on the my actual response
For someone who loves to tell others they missed the point I’m amazed at how much you do mental gymnastics to avoid any sort of point the other person is making and then insinuate that person is terrible on top of that for absolutely no reason.

You said specifically age or disability, the two things people commonly use to shut down opposing viewpoints because “god how can you be so rude as to be mean to a disabled person” even though a lot of the time a disabled person can be perfectly fine. And you immediately jump to the assumption that if you miss one positional I’m gonna scream at you, another common tactic, this is like a greatest hits of ways GCBTW shuts down arguments on the forums

[ty_taurus]

Wasn't trying to do anything of the sort. Of course a run goes faster if a monster dies. Literal basic logic. The longer it lives, the more risk of something bad happening, sure. I feel like we've just met different types of healers who don't do DPS I suppose, so I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Just like when I see a tank not popping CDs during big pulls, or a off tank not popping defensives on a main tank or other party members to try and help them out, or a DPS standing in avoidable AoE and clearly turning with their keyboard to move (rather than just using mouse camera movement to move). I don't just assume they are being lazy I guess. If you don't either, thats great. If someone clearly has the ability to do what ever it is they need to do but are just not, then again, I agree, thats crappy of them.

Not saying you're taking a stance against older player/what ever players, but it just sounded like you just default to "Oh great a lazy ass player" when sometimes its not like that.

My former comments pointing out how the discussion is about willingly poor gameplay, while stating how lack of skill and/or ability is understandable:

Note that I'm also referring to intentionally bad play and not lack of skill or ability. Those of us who fight lazy healers on the forums have spoken till we're blue in the face about how what matters is genuine effort and not optimal skill, but it tends to fall on deaf ears.

That said, there's nothing wrong with not performing optimally as long as you are genuinely trying your best. No one begins as a savage tier player and it's okay to not be perfect. Additionally, if you have certain physical or mental limitations that make it harder to play the game, it's important to find a group of players who are willing to help you get through different aspects of content. Unfortunately, an MMO just isn't the prime example of a game genre known for accessibility, but as long as you communicate with people and create a network of friends who will help you, you can still enjoy a lot of what FFXIV can offer you.:

[Niki_Hope]

I will never think its fine to be rude to other players because "they suck at their job" in normal content. .

Thank you for this, it is so true.
Period. End of story. I have seen this behavior increasing and getting worse. No one has the right to be rude to someone, it's a GAME.

The one-sidedness of this conversation is just plain wrong. The game is easy in normal content, if someone isn't playing the best in your opinion, or even decent, it is against the TOS to harass anyone. I am a DPS healer, I KNOW how to play. I ALSO know that "Fresh Tank" has watched players W2W pulls and EVEN I struggle to keep them alive. They don't use their CD they don't do any mitigation, they don't even get out of red. Who EVER said you can let a tank sit at 10% was JUST as wrong as someone thinking you never have to DPS as a healer. Just stop trying. The "Fresh Tank" can learn, the dps that stands in red can learn, and so can a healer that doesn't want to dps, they too will learn.
Be kind to players, be nice and courteous, allow them to ask for help or tips OR KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! IF it is just too bad and you can't seem to keep yourself under control, Hit U and leave the group, DONE and its likely you will never play with them again.

[Garten]

I did a dungeon once, like One of the Firsts, dont Remember wich, where the whm were only pressing cure once in a while and then the emote Flex for the entirety of the dungeon, like Literally a hundred times.. i was playing on the ps4 that day and i could not get a volte kick through.. i usually NEVER care if the healer does not DPS, but that ppl, did not know why, really made me a bit mad cause i thought: if he can Press an emote, he can Press a Stone once in a while .

[ty_taurus]

What essentially keeps happening in these forums is someone comes along and says some combination of the same old "but healers don't need to heal to clear," "but SE says healers should just heal," "but the primary goal of healers is to keep the party alive" and for reasons XYZ, that's why healers shouldn't be expected to DPS. Then the rest of us come in and say no, actually that's not how this game is functionally designed. DPS is a responsibility of healers, and any player who refuses to contribute is griefing, and then you get pages of arguments about how that's an attack on low skill players or players with disability.

I need an industrial crane to try and reach the conclusions people jump to on these forums. I'm sure there are trolly players who harass others in game one way or another on their skill because it's an online game. Welcome to the internet. But beyond those fringe examples...

No. One. Has. EVER. Complained. About. Low. Skill. Or. Low. Ability. Players. Not. DPSing. On. These. Forums. EVER.

Every time the conversation is brought up, it's about denouncing poor logic designed to defend griefing behavior without attacking learning or low skill play.

[Niki_Hope]

Well, I have lurked in this forum a long time, as you can see by my post count, I literally made my account to post to this.
FFXIV has one of the BEST communities in a MMO in my opinion. I would like to hope it would stay that way, but I have noticed more and more rudeness towards players in general. I wish people could be more understanding and realize even IF the tank is bad or healer doesn't dps, or the dps doesn't do proper rotations, it's just not going to add that much more time to the dungeon. If someone is clearly afking and dancing or w/e (I literally had a healer take a SHOWER during Prea) Just communicate with the party and remove them. And if all else fails, click U, click leave party, and it is over.

[Supersnow845]

Well, I have lurked in this forum a long time, as you can see by my post count, I literally made my account to post to this.
FFXIV has one of the BEST communities in a MMO in my opinion. I would like to hope it would stay that way, but I have noticed more and more rudeness towards players in general. I wish people could be more understanding and realize even IF the tank is bad or healer doesn't dps, or the dps doesn't do proper rotations, it's just not going to add that much more time to the dungeon. If someone is clearly afking and dancing or w/e (I literally had a healer take a SHOWER during Prea) Just communicate with the party and remove them. And if all else fails, click U, click leave party, and it is over.

Why is intentionally not doing your job as the game is designed to the point that you add time to the instance for other people not considered rude (again not discussing people who are intentionally trying or actually struggling, it’s pretty easy to see which is which) but asking people “hey healers can DPS when there is little healing to be done” considered rude

If you don’t want to contribute then play with trusts, don’t sandbag then get angry someone calls you out on it, healer DPS is not gigabrain literally anyone can attempt it if they want to and if you try and something goes wrong good on you for trying

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Gotta put this on top or it’ll be glossed over again.

[…]No. One. Has. EVER. Complained. About. Low. Skill. Or. Low. Ability. Players. Not. DPSing. On. These. Forums. EVER.

Every time the conversation is brought up, it's about denouncing poor logic designed to defend griefing behavior without attacking learning or low skill play.