Live Letter Thoughts

[Jeeqbit]

At first, I thought they were disbanding as well, but there is line at the end of it spoken by Alphinaud that implies it's a deception.

"We are disbanding the Scions of the Seventh Dawn."
"At least...that is what the story will be."

I still took that and the New Adventure direction to imply that we would get some different people to adventure with. The last thing you would want in a new adventure is for it to not feel new.

[Misplaced_Marbles]

Until Shadowbringers, the only time we really had the entire group of Scions around were in patches. And even then, we usually focused on two to three at a time.

Yeah, but let's be honest: when you can easily predict when you're traveling with Alphinaud, chances are pretty high that, regardless of what you'll be doing, someone is eventually going to be getting an earful of the usual out of place, out of touch speech. It gets very tiresome.

[TaleraRistain]

I still took that and the New Adventure direction to imply that we would get some different people to adventure with. The last thing you would want in a new adventure is for it to not feel new.

It looks like we are now, though. And they laid the groundwork for it narratively to make sense, such as Varshahn joining us. Even Big Varshahn makes sense because IIRC he mentioned some side project he was working on. That is probably his adult simulacrum though it could be something else. I'm sure we'll find out.

I think the dissatisfaction of so many stemmed from the idea that they didn't get all new people immediately but that would have destroyed the narrative. We needed a reason for others to show up.

And as others have said, we're just returning to pattern from before Shadowbringers where we have one or two of our usuals with us at a time.

[Kazhar]

All Vel was pointing out was the definitive format of the statement was wrong. It wasn't "They appear to be retiring" but that they had and treating it like an absolute fact. Which there is nothing in the storyline or from any official sources to support that idea.

But at the same time, they were losing their shit over it and started screaming that they weren't retiring the Scions, which is also wrong. The only objective truth here is we don't know what's their plan, so it's pointless to police other people over their own interpretation of the story, and in my opinion, the complete opposite of what an healthy discussion should be about.
I don't mind if someone say "this is unconfirmed", but this isn't what they were doing. They were being a hypocrite by contradicting aveyond's unproven statements with more unproven statements, which is the reason I'm convinced all this "objectivity police" which happens here is not done in good faith.

[TaleraRistain]

But at the same time, they were losing their shit over it and started screaming that they weren't retiring the Scions, which is also wrong. The only objective truth here is we don't know what's their plan, so it's pointless to police other people over their own interpretation of the story, and in my opinion, the complete opposite of what an healthy discussion should be about.
I don't mind if someone say "this is unconfirmed", but this isn't what they were doing. They were being a hypocrite by contradicting aveyond's unproven statements with more unproven statements, which is the reason I'm convinced all this "objectivity police" which happens here is not done in good faith.

...says who?

Where? Who said this? When? Source?

Nothing I saw in any liveletter or any other announcement even REMOTELY mentioned this...so where did you get that conclusion from? I watched the entire liveletter last night, fully translated, no one said anything like that.

No one.

Where in that is an unproven statement? I only see a question asking for evidence of a declarative statement made about the retirement of the party.

I also watched the live letter and the official confirmation of retirement of any of the Scions was not mentioned. And you yourself responded to this and said the aveyond's conclusion came from the reading the text. But now you say aveyond's conclusion was unproven? Which is it? You seem to be contradicting yourself here.

[LisSquid]

They're never getting rid of the Scions. Y'shtola is never going to actually die. This is a fun romp fantasy adventure - the same it has been since ARR. The stakes don't matter, and we're always going to kill god like JRPG's finest.

These characters have no actual agency and exist for our entertainment. Not to act in some neo-Dante's Inferno.

[Kazhar]

Where in that is an unproven statement? I only see a question asking for evidence of a declarative statement made about the retirement of the party.

I also watched the live letter and the official confirmation of retirement of any of the Scions was not mentioned. And you yourself responded to this and said the aveyond's conclusion came from the reading the text. But now you say aveyond's conclusion was unproven? Which is it? You seem to be contradicting yourself here.

No, you just seem to be convinced that I'm taking a definite side on the subject when I never did. I think aveyond is allowed to make their own interpretation of the text and assuming that they're retiring the Scions is not an uncorrect read of it, it's just unproven. In the same post you quoted earlier and all the following ones I aknowledged the possibility that it could be wrong.
Only thing I'm against is the stupid outrage over someone not saying "IMO" once again, especially when in this case, this is not even factually incorrect, just unproven for now.

And the hypocritical stuff happened later with VelKallor, not the first post I answered.

[TaleraRistain]

Only thing I'm against is the stupid outrage over someone not saying "IMO" once again, especially when in this case, this is not even factually incorrect, just unproven for now.

Aveyond has a habit of making these declarative statements. Which wouldn't be an issue in and of itself so much, but then they (and certain others) make these snipey little passive aggressive comments that this is the viewpoint of those "who care about the game" or "want to see it succeed". You talk about not promoting healthy discussion. Trying to shut down any viewpoint but your own by insulting those who don't share yours isn't really promoting healthy discussion.

We ALL care about the game and want it to succeed or we wouldn't be here. That's why it's important to put our opinions forth as opinions and respect that others may think differently. That is how you promote healthy discussion.

[Jeeqbit]

It looks like we are now, though. And they laid the groundwork for it narratively to make sense, such as Varshahn joining us.

Yes and there wasn't really doubt in my mind that they would bring new characters in for a new adventure, it just takes time to bring us to the new characters without rushing.

I'm choosing to highlight this specific part of your post because of how much it stood out to me. This is not a message that I feel does justice to the issues surrounding loss and grief. I expect better care for topics such as these from the story.

Most of what you say about "forge ahead" doesn't make sense to me, but based on this it seems like one of your biggest problems is with how people experiencing grief and loss simply turn into beasts or get calmed by the scions.

Again, that is just something that happens in Endwalker and people most likely won't turn into beasts under those circumstances in the next expansion. It doesn't necessarily happen in sidequests or future expansions, yet your concerns extend to future expansions.

The story isn't about the grief of all these little people. I'm sure some of them will get support. In fact, when you do the sidequests you find out that some of them do get support from the community, such as the people of Palaka's Stand and the foster parents of the baby. Yet, you come across people who weren't so lucky to get support from others, who are orphans in the MSQ and turn to stealing.

[SentioftheHoukai]

Aveyond has a habit of making these declarative statements. Which wouldn't be an issue in and of itself so much, but then they (and certain others) make these snipey little passive aggressive comments that this is the viewpoint of those "who care about the game" or "want to see it succeed". You talk about not promoting healthy discussion. Trying to shut down any viewpoint but your own by insulting those who don't share yours isn't really promoting healthy discussion.

We ALL care about the game and want it to succeed or we wouldn't be here. That's why it's important to put our opinions forth as opinions and respect that others may think differently. That is how you promote healthy discussion.

Aveyond has no such habit. What they DO have a habit of is not putting "this is my opinion, I want to make it extra clear you know that" before every sentence they write. It's unreasonable to expect this on a forum, and it most certainly is not the fault of Aveyond for not doing so. As far as I'm concerned, on a forum one should assume that someone is stating their opinion before reading what they posted instead of assuming they're bulldozing in here with what they believe to be objective fact like so many here seem to be wont to do.

It becomes clearer and clearer every day that some here have built up little headcanons and mental images of certain other posters and come out swinging right out the bat with the worst possible interpretations of other's intent when they come to post. Frankly, it's rude and very, very tiring and maybe if you want others to apparently be "nicer" or some such you should be brave and ignite the little spark that initiates the change yourselves.