Live Letter Thoughts

[VelKallor]

Nor am I asking for the Ascians to be "absolved" I want the game to acknowledge beyond a passing statement that what she did was wrong, and to stop propping her up as a benevolent goddess when she wasn't one.

Well , the writers know what they are doing, and as I enjoyed the storyline as is, I disagree with your interpretation.

Unfortunately this island is located somewhere tropical. It will have mostly sunny and rainy weather. The lack of biome choice is rather disappointing. I would've preferred a smaller and more customizable island than one that is locked to the tropical biome.

What fun is there in a snowed in, frozen wasteland where your crops wither and die?

Really?

[SentioftheHoukai]

Because it is all relativism, what you are effectively asking for, or at the very least advocating for with this sentiment is a very long history of indoctrination to effectively be annulled in a very short period of time. The world is vast so that isn't happening. They have already made it pretty clear through the story that it is no longer as simple as black and white and leaves it up to your own perception to determine who was right, and who was wrong. - The game doesn't need to tell you that.

We weren't exactly heading into Endwalker as "OOOO the big bad Zodiark" - This was practically tossed out the window courtesy of the lecture as provided by Emet-Selch in Rak'tika. The only basis for us going after him and subsequently viewing him as bad was just due to external factors (e.g., Zenos and Fandaniel wanting to suckle his power)

Edit: Just as I have said enablement from a third party factor is not an absolvent, otherwise ultimately the stick-pointing game would be, and should be put in the direction of Hermes.

None of this matters, it's all lazy excuses from Yoshida anyway. It's not moral relativism either, not when we the Warrior of Light are canonically writing the Unending Codex (Tataru tells us to begin writing a Journal so we won't forget things from now on, after which the Unending Codex starts gaining entries) which says Hydaelyn was the Will of the Star (when in reality she stole it from Zodiark before his ashes had even begun to cool) the entire time and is responsible for everything good about the Sundered world. Considering this, and the way the Omega quest ended on a Hydaelyn-positive message anyways (The motto of "FORGE AHEAD" being mouthpieced at us at the end, why was rando alien planet's recording aware of Hydaelyn's arc words anyway? More propaganda from the devs, becuz ofc) as well as Loporrits dancing on Zodiark's grave its hard NOT to think a vast majority of 6.2 is a metaphor for Yoshida's middle finger waving flagrantly in the face of any who cared even the slightest bit about the Ancients. We don't want a giant retcon of the lore, we just want some people in game to give a shit that Hydaelyn effectively erased an entire planet's worth of people. Instead, we get to cover it up.

I've been going over and reviewing some of the lines we heard from the Scions in Shadowbringers, and frankly if the Scions retained ANY of their previous characterization from the aforementioned expansion they should have had MAJOR issues with how Hydaelyn did things, but they don't. Ergo, they're Out of Character. Alphinaud's rumination on the erasing of history and the value of being remembered by one's loved ones, Y'shtola's rebuking and condemnation of Emet-Selch's mass murder and genocide, Thancred's confident declaration that he would NEVER accept an Ascian's assistance after all the suffering their kind has wrought. All of this flies completely in the face of the way they act in Endwalker, and their refusal to look at Hydaelyn through the same lens of looking glass. It's insulting to one's intelligence to think Yoshida thought we would not notice these discrepancies. He may as well have called us Autist Retards directly to our faces.

[Jeeqbit]

And she used her own free will by not telling people what was going on, paving the way for the destruction of all but a handful of ancients. Nothing about this strikes me as a hero, and to have to sit through hearing about how wonderful she was in 6.2 isn't going to make for a palatable experience for those of us who do not think highly of her actions.

It was her that started this. Nor are we asking for the Ascians to be "absolved" we want the game to acknowledge beyond a passing statement that what she did was wrong, and to stop propping her up as a benevolent goddess when she wasn't one.

She acknowledges she did terrible things. Since SE wrote this line from her, they are obviously aware of it.

But she also endured eras of time while preparing a way to reach Meteion and to create a means of escape from the Final Days, preserving the continued existence of her people's souls.

It's not a perfect thing. She did good things and bad things to achieve her aim of saving the star.

She provides her own explanation for why she can't tell anyone. Hermes could go crazy again and Emet-Selch wouldn't believe her when he didn't the first time, so she had to identify specific people that would believe her and use the information right.

Emet-Selch even admits to us that their ways would not have led them to Meteion, so it's his opinion that if Venat had told them it would not have caused them to arrive at Meteion. Their best solution would probably have still been to summon Zodiark, so nothing changes.

[aveyond-dreams]

She acknowledges she did terrible things. Since SE wrote this line from her, they are obviously aware of it.

And then the game proceeded to paint her as a heroine in the Codex entry, and are now poised to refer back to us as her champion. I feel as though my character has been manipulated and deceived by Hydaelyn too much to consider himself her champion. We were supposed to not be the Warrior of Light anymore and just be an adventurer. What has become of that promise?

But she also endured eras of time while preparing a way to reach Meteion and to create a means of escape from the Final Days, preserving the continued existence of her people's souls.

Perhaps if she had told the Convocation what was going on and had Hermes locked up before he could further sabotage everything, she may not have had to. In any case it wasn't her that preserved anyone's souls, that was the function of Zodiark whose summoners' souls weren't consumed by him like Hydaelyn did hers. Had the final sacrifice of plant and animal life come to fruition, they likely would've been able to escape their predicament.

Instead she sundered the planet and humanity went from the state of risking blasphemies spawning whenever they used magic, to risking turning into one for succumbing to despair. To classify her as a hero for doing such a thing is something I simply cannot wrap my head around.

She provides her own explanation for why she can't tell anyone. Hermes could go crazy again and Emet-Selch wouldn't believe her when he didn't the first time, so she had to identify specific people that would believe her and use the information right.

Her explanation was found wanting by enough people to generate discussions surrounding the topic that have carried on to this day. It was not well-written. The logic underlying her actions should have been handled with greater care so as to remove all doubt and ensure precise clarity as to why these things had to play out the way they did. This wasn't accomplished.

The echo existed in that era, so she was more than capable of proving herself true to anyone. Not believing her isn't a good enough explanation, not given what the game already showed us.

Emet-Selch even admits to us that their ways would not have led them to Meteion, so it's his opinion that if Venat had told them it would not have caused them to arrive at Meteion. Their best solution would probably have still been to summon Zodiark, so nothing changes.

Summoning Zodiark and performing the necessary sacrifices to return the stability of creation magic and the lives lost in his original summoning seems to like a far better option than being left in the compromised state the Sundering left humanity in, with Venat's backup plan of sending them out in space without the protection of Zodiark almost assuredly putting them directly within Meteion's reach.

Do you see why people have taken issue with the way in which this story was constructed and the ways in which it attempts to justify its plot points? This experience has severely undermined people's confidence in future storytelling along with the many issues surrounding the treatment of:

Garlemald, now a republic left in runs.

Zenos, whose more compelling teases in Shadowbringers weren't followed up - and given this game's lack of permanent death for main cast members has his fans wondering why they were not afforded the same courtesy as fans of the Scions have been in terms of bringing them back.

The Ancients, of whom an inconsistent picture has been painted through a combination of conflicting visions, writing, and interpretations.

Now the Void, which many of are cautious about getting too invested in given the fact that the 6.2 trailer showed dawn breaking in its skies and the implications that the loss of this game's demon realm would have for its worldbuilding. Moving forward we would like to see in 6.2 and beyond less one-sided protagonist centric victories unless similar concessions are willing to be made for the antagonist faction as well, less of a focus on subverting expectations and generally being more clear as to what we should expect, and for the world to not be left in a lesser state as a result of our journey through it.

[LisSquid]

For people who watched the island livestream: was there anything about weather and possible biomes? I know the map is pretty solidly green, but I can dream.

[aveyond-dreams]

For people who watched the island livestream: was there anything about weather and possible biomes? I know the map is pretty solidly green, but I can dream.

Unfortunately this island is located somewhere tropical. It will have mostly sunny and rainy weather. The lack of biome choice is rather disappointing. I would've preferred a smaller and more customizable island than one that is locked to the tropical biome.

[LisSquid]

Unfortunately this island is located somewhere tropical. It will have mostly sunny and rainy weather. The lack of biome choice is rather disappointing. I would've preferred a smaller and more customizable island than one that is locked to the tropical biome.

That is a shame. With all this ungodly heat happening I find myself wanting to afk in Coerthia..

Maybe some update will let us terraform - it is evergreen (huehuehuehue) content, after all. Foggy redwood forest dreams never die.

[Shougun]

For people who watched the island livestream: was there anything about weather and possible biomes? I know the map is pretty solidly green, but I can dream.

Unfortunately this island is located somewhere tropical. It will have mostly sunny and rainy weather. The lack of biome choice is rather disappointing. I would've preferred a smaller and more customizable island than one that is locked to the tropical biome.

Not a feature to just quickly make, but I do hope they consider giving us some control- through mirage, creation magic, moogle magic, whatever nonsense needed to do it lol.

Would be cool to change the skybox, etc to like Elpis (floating island), or Azim Steppe, ETC. Depending on zone some changes to lighting and maybe a few tree swaps could go a long way to selling the idea. Something like a desert would be a lot harder, but perhaps still not impractical (replace ground texture, swap ..a lot.. more models).

Besides selecting a snow like 'skin' to your island there also might just be like a Christmas event or something and some part of your Island gets snow for a little while.

Few ways to do it, I agree it would be neat if we get some variation somehow- regardless of the technical physical location of the island.

[Kazhar]

They had the intent to destroy a part of their own people for the sake of summoning Zodiark. They did so.

After they did that, they had the intent to destroy a part of their own people to repair the damage to Etheirys. They did so.

This is a disingenuous way to phrase it. It's been made very clear that the Ancients sacrificed themselves to summon Zodiark and that they did so willingly, the story never supports that they were forced nor brainwashed into it. Whether the Convocation could be still considered responsible for their sacrifice is an interesting question, but it's certainly not as clear cut as the way you say it.
Only the third sacrifice was clearly framed as killing other life forms without their consent, and this is not a coincidence that this is the one which sparked heavy debates among the Ancients society and forced Elidibus to come back as an Emissary.

So why do people want to venerate the group that succeeded in 2 acts of genocide and were about to commit multiple genocides while demonizing the individual that stopped that massive wave of genocide

I believe people (those of us who were disgusted by Venat's act) would have a much different reaction to the Sundering if it was established that Ancients agreed to it. All of this was done without their consent and a decision taken by (possibly, depending on how much she told her followers, and we know she wasn't really found of sharing) a single individual. The post EW live letter supports this interpretation.
So yes, this is not comparable.

And even if we accepted your notion that the willing sacrifice of the Ancients was an act of evil, you can't absolve Venat of responsability for it. After all, her entire 12k years plan needed Zodiark to work in the first place.

[Jojoya]

This is a disingenuous way to phrase it. It's been made very clear that the Ancients sacrificed themselves to summon Zodiark and that they did so willingly, the story never supports that they were forced nor brainwashed into it. Whether the Convocation could be still considered responsible for their sacrifice is an interesting question, but it's certainly not as clear cut as the way you say it.

A lot of this conversation comes about only because the writer decided this is the way things should happen and didn't pour over possible consequences like players are.

What was made clear was that the Amaurotines had a belief that death renewed life so self-sacrifice was revered. No mention was made of the other societies with their own autonomous governments we know had existed on Etheirys thanks to the 5.0 side quest. Can we be certain that they also sacrificed themselves willingly, or is that just something being told to us by a member of the Amaurotine ruling class who held the belief and had a difficult time giving due consideration to others who didn't share that belief? You know, the same guy that had told us that he decided we weren't truly alive so it wouldn't be murder to kill us. Was all that something overlooked by the writer in creating the story?

If Venat's plan hinged on the Convocation summoning Zodiark, why would she remain silent instead of speaking with them? The WoL was told in Elpis that while their actions on Elpis would not change the WoL's past, they could change the future of the Amaurotine-era Etheirys. You would think that Venat would have done everything possible to make certain her plan had all the i's dotted and t's crossed. Was that also overlooked by the writer?

Then there's Argos, which is the supposed proof our timelines truly did converge. Did it not strike anyone else as weird that while Argos refused to carry us at first despite Venat's request, it had no problem immediately carrying Y'shtola, Thancred and Urianger at the Watcher's request? Again, perhaps another detail overlooked by the writer.

Again, it's a story. What happens in the story is all fiction created for the writer's purpose. You guys are allowing yourselves to get too worked up over it. There's a big difference between saying "Venat is evil" and saying "I don't think the writer did a good job of convincing me that I should view Venat favorably".

One thing that makes me very curious: assuming these were actual events and not a writer's imagination, what do you think would have happened to Etheirys if Venat had simply stepped aside and done nothing at all?

You didn't major in Literature, did you? :P

You're right. As much as I love to read, I got tired of being told by instructors that there's only a single way to interpret a given piece of literature and so crossed that out on my list of possible majors. I loved those occasions I could find statements by the author that it was up to the individual reader to decide the meaning and still I'd be told I was wrong (despite one of those statements actually being included in the author's preface to the book of his short stories).

Being closeminded to other opinions is a sure path to stagnation. You don't have to agree but at least listen in case something is said that might give you a different view and give credit when their argument is constructed well.