Live Letter Thoughts

[aveyond-dreams]

None of what was posted above accounts for the fact that the fans of the Scions are in agreement with those of us who aren't in saying that they need to take a break from them. This is not demonstrated by the polls you have posted.

[Alleo]

None of what was posted above accounts for the fact that the fans of the Scions are in agreement with those of us who aren't in saying that they need to take a break from them. This is not demonstrated by the polls you have posted.

I wanted to show that one thread on reddit does not make a good statistic. Especially when its quite often said here on the forum how "bad" reddit, twitter and others are.
So bascially you have a high chance to find a thread on reddit that shows your own opinion but that does not make it a fact.

@Lauront: So now we shift goal and take threads not into account even though they are made after Endwalker thus should show the opinions of people after they finished it but small threads with barely any comments should?

The character poll from China is also quite recent.

This forum, and even places like Reddit, are a tiny percentage of the playerbase. Its near impossible to really get a 100% accurate idea of what the population think on any aspect, be it job changes or story. Anger and discourse will always have a louder voice in the pack. One just hopes that those in charge like Yoshi-P know to look beyond just these walls when seeking feedback.

Exactly. Which is why I just took a few minutes and searched for FF14 reddit Endwalker and got threads with many different views. So having one thread that somehow says that a few people who like the scions are fine with them being gone from the story is not proof. Its just that, one thread.

It also shows how the information is used. My threads, with one of them having over 500 comments (unlike the other links with barely any comments) is somehow not accurate because somehow many people will just change their opinion of a story after a bit? I am sure if these threads would have been against Endwalker they would have been fine to be used.

So maybe we should better just stick to our own opinions and not try to give any side some majority this / minority that.

But again I am not sure why the MSQ and characters are so much a topic, since seemingly quests are not important in a MMO and gameplay should be more important...

About the topic itself: Still looking forward Island Sancturary.

[Lauront]

I wanted to show that one thread on reddit does not make a good statistic. Especially when its quite often said here on the forum how "bad" reddit, twitter and others are.

Yeah, for reasons that have been rehashed here multiple times, but if posters were to limit their examples to the OF, the usual anti-OF arguments would crop up, hence an example drawn from the XIV Discussion subreddit.

So bascially you have a high chance to find a thread on reddit that shows your own opinion but that does not make it a fact.

Is anyone suggesting that the existence of opinions makes whatever is being said within those opinions a fact? But when the question initially posed was one of doubt that some people are bored of the scions, yes, the existence of said opinions does make it a fact that such opinions exist.

@Lauront: So now we shift goal and take threads not into account even though they are made after Endwalker thus should show the opinions of people after they finished it but small threads with barely any comments should?

Introducing threads about the expansion and Scion popularity is goal-shifting in the first place, while failing to take into account the fact that a character being popular does not mean the same thing as not wanting to shift to new characters in the story. It is not a: "I want the same exact cast in the story for the next story arc" poll - one could point to the existence of characters outwith the Scions outstripping certain of them in popularity as well, on that note. SE often seems prone to this confusion themselves by dragging out a character's presence just because they previously had been popular. But regardless, the two things are not the same. The Chinese poll falls under this same issue. And to reiterate a point made by the below poster for the earlier threads:

All of your sources were immediatly after release, which is when Endwalker's reception was at its strongest. Recency biais is a well known phenomenon.
Just a few weeks ago, a poll on reddit with a few thousands of votes firmly put Endwalker below Shadowbringers as the subreddit's favorite expansion.

So maybe we should better just stick to our own opinions and not try to give any side some majority this / minority that.

Indeed, hence as the above poster put it (and I have stated multiple times before when the Strikers of the world allude to supposed "majorities" that just "love" EW, which includes attempts to present other sites as somehow reflective of majorities in contrast to the OF, when the reality is no major site the fanbase engages can claim that and we must remain agnostic as to how representative any of them is since we have no basis to determine this):

Which is why polling experts exist at all, to filter all the biais and try to make the more accurate picture of what the playerbase think of the game.
At our level, it's impossible to know anything for certain besides anecdotal evidence.

[Lauront]

Some of them are also as old as 8 months. There was this more recent one. They also do not account for the fact that someone may like the character but want a change of pace from them, as the link Aveyond posted indicates, so this is ink squirting in response to it, at best.

[Theodric]

Some of them are also as old as 8 months. There was this more recent one. They also do not account for the fact that someone may like the character but want a change of pace from them, as the link Aveyond posted indicates, so this is ink squirting in response to it, at best.

Yep. I used to really like Thancred but have since grown tired of him due to overexposure and this strange new trend of humble bragging about walking away with not even a scar. Despite creating a cool, unique model for him back in Heavensward that left him looking more rugged and grizzled as a consequence of what he endured.

[Hurlstone]

This forum, and even places like Reddit, are a tiny percentage of the playerbase. Its near impossible to really get a 100% accurate idea of what the population think on any aspect, be it job changes or story. Anger and discourse will always have a louder voice in the pack. One just hopes that those in charge like Yoshi-P know to look beyond just these walls when seeking feedback.

Personally speaking though, I do feel that Endwalkers story being ‘divisive’ is an overexertion. Perhaps not here, where honestly it feels rather daunting at times to speak out as a fan of Venat, but critically the expansion was a hit and outside of these threads I see little condemnation of the story. It may not be as lauded as Shadowbringers, and like with any game no doubt hype has been responsible for inflating its initial reaction, but the way some seem to talk of it being the ‘Cataclysm’ to FFXIV just dose not ring true with me (Come back to me when a whole zone is changed into a Ranbo parody… it was hard being an Alliance lore player at that time.) Of course I am not saying people who disliked the story are wrong, we all have our preferences and art is always subjective, I just feel the scale of that dislike is debatable in the wider context of the game and the players reaction.

I will also say, as its impossible to be completely bias in any discussion, that I did love Endwalker and its themes. It had its flaws forn sure and I still had some concerns with how they approched the Scions in 6.1, but nothing is perfect haha.

Yep. I used to really like Thancred but have since grown tired of him due to overexposure and this strange new trend of humble bragging about walking away with not even a scar. Despite creating a cool, unique model for him back in Heavensward that left him looking more rugged and grizzled as a consequence of what he endured.

Funnily enough Thancred used to always be my least favorite Scion. From ARR+ I found him just rather boring and monotonous, but he became one of my favorites with Shadowbrings and the arc they gave him and Ryne.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Funnily enough Thancred used to always be my least favorite Scion. From ARR+ I found him just rather boring and monotonous, but he became one of my favorites with Shadowbrings and the arc they gave him and Ryne.

Daddy Thancred Arc was a good Arc.
His relationship with Ryne was really good. One of many reasons why ShB IMO was the Best Expansion.

[ReynTime]

Daddy Thancred Arc was a good Arc.
His relationship with Ryne was really good. One of many reasons why ShB IMO was the Best Expansion.

If they were really concerned about making good character development closures, that would have been the end of his arc. Since 1.0 his story was based on the guilt from failing to stop Minfilia's father from getting killed, evolved into him feeling he had to make up for it by working harder under the Circle and consequently the Scions while still being too hard on himself since, stumbling to grow due the circumstances of his missions (falling for the trap in Drybone, being taken by an Ascian, etc), then feeling like he 'lost' Minfilia in Heavensward... until he meets what is essentially his 'second chance' in Ryne, which was the primary reason he got so over protective of her.
Only reason he's still around now is because muh fans who can't let go of characters with concluded arcs just because they love them too much.

[AwesomeJr44]

Perhaps not here, where honestly it feels rather daunting at times to speak out as a fan of Venat,

Are you joking? Please tell me you're joking. Being an open Venat fan is the easiest way to have the GCBTW accept you instantly on any other social media platform, and even on the forums you're accepted by half of the people here. On the forums, you'll actually meet people from both sides, people who like her (somehow), and people people who don't. Don't pretend like Venat fans are some persecuted group, that's so ridiculous it would be hilarious if I could believe it was a joke.

- You guys have the GCBTW to banish any anti-Venat people to downvote hell on Reddit, while if you make a pro-Venat post you get to swim in upvotes for almost zero effort.
- You have Pro-Venat Reddit Mods to just outright delete pro-Ascian/Zodiark posts and art to prevent them from getting even some small level of attention.
- You have your own personal derailing squad on the forums to ensure that anyone who disagrees with you can't have a proper thread because god forbid someone talk about how they don't like mommy or how she's a murderer. (The derailing happens even when its a positive thread like this one was. Guess people hate Aveyond THAT much for being honest)
- Every Youtuber on Youtube is forced to agree with you so they can get MSQ watch time as not liking the story isn't popular.
- You have big FFXIV streamers like Zepla painting the entire portion of the community that didn't like Endwalker/Venat as 'trolls'.

Being a Venat fan isn't 'daunting'. You just prefer the Reddit/Twitter/Youtube echo chamber where you don't often encounter people who don't like your precious mommy.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Are you joking? Please tell me you're joking. Being an open Venat fan is the easiest way to have the GCBTW accept you instantly on any other social media platform

Herein lies a big part of the problem; we're not on any other platform. The victim play about how you all get downvoted to oblivion elsewhere is meaningless here. If we really cared what Reddit or Twitter or wherever else thought, we'd go there. Maybe save your anger for them, and try approaching the forums as its own place.

And before it comes up: I'm not very pro-Venat. I'm neutral about her at best. I want to play through Endwalker again for better context (I was kinda rushing the first time to outpace spoilers, and still only met with moderate success at it), but I keep getting distracted by other stuff, so I try to keep my thoughts about the matter to myself.