Thread: 6.25 to introduce Rank Demotion. Do you think this will help or hurt the overall PvP

I'm still here thinking that PVP is a waste of development time and wish they'd put less time into it overall.

Like whats even the point, they don't balance around the one eternal PVP mode that gets the daily roulette, but instead balance around the side mode that dies after a couple of weeks when people already have the rewards, when a majority of players only want the rewards and probably are just dragging their feet through pvp in the first place?

Originally Posted by Remish

The queues were only bad in about the gold tier.
I agree derank isn't the solution though. This only encourages cheating when you get to Diamond/Crystal. Especially if top 100 rewards start becoming more desirable. Sure lower tier will have more queue times but this opens other can of worms in the process and that's why I do not think it's the answer. Just feels like a "other games do it so we will to" cop out that doesn't address the actual problem.

Then what's your solution to make queue times better for lower ranks? Right now it's pretty bad and it's only getting worse with no deranking and as the mode dies out. How are people supposed to get games? Or are you only concerned with high ranking players because of a "fuck you I got mine" mentality?

Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Then what's your solution to make queue times better for lower ranks? Right now it's pretty bad and it's only getting worse with no deranking and as the mode dies out. How are people supposed to get games? Or are you only concerned with high ranking players because of a "fuck you I got mine" mentality?

The demote is only to Platinum. It's not fixing the problem you are describing.

Originally Posted by Azuri

The demote is only to Platinum. It's not fixing the problem you are describing.

Yes, it should go further and let people demote all the way down to the bottom if they consistently lose. Filtering people only up is nothing but trouble. All you get in lower ranks are long queue times, late starters, and alts characters that come in and stomp everyone. It's not a fun experience in the slightest.

Here's the thing. Player retention ultimately depends on the rewards and how easily achievable they seem to be able to get. If the Season 3 rewards are a repeat of Season 2, then no one is really going to play it. If the rewards were better glamour, new mounts, and such (rewards that actually look good), and are guaranteed to be unlockable as long as you reach the requisite rank -- even if you don't make it this season, then the rewards are guaranteed in the same way it's guaranteed in Extreme or Savage encounters. It's only about the matter of time and effort you put into reaching it.

If the incentive for the rewards at higher ranks is good, then there will always be people willing to try to get them. If the rewards feel unobtainable (such as top 100 having a very high leaderboard score when you barely reach Crystal), then no one will really attempt to get them.

What Rank Demotions provides is having less alts/bots to sabotage your way in the same tier / higher tiers while climbing up. This only matters for players who really want to promote upwards. Otherwise, rank demotions doesn't change anything else since everyone still naturally drops stars otherwise. Now, the people who actually do intentionally lose your games are definitely reportable and the offense is much more strict while staying in Bronze tier. Those players will rarely be reaching towards Silver, Gold, Platinum, etc. so there will be less chances of running into people who intentionally "throw the game".

Having a snapshot of the highest rank you ever achieved is a good thing - you will always unlock the highest reward you get, even if you fall from Crystal tier to Diamond, or Diamond to Platinum. You will still get Crystal tier rewards / Diamond Tier rewards. This is pretty much a failsafe for Rank Demotions. If all the allies on your team are bots who intentionally throw at Bronze tier, then even if your team is bad, you can still carry yourself out of Bronze because the enemy bot team will also be bad. As the only real player left, you should be able to stomp on them quite easily. Otherwise... your skill level might belong in that tier.

Ultimately, where the rank demotions start will be a big divide into whether your skill level is above bots or below bots. Personally, I'd rather have it start at lower ranks, but it might discourage players from attempting to reach Silver/Gold and understand the intricacies of PvP combat. Having a bigger buffer might be a better thing, but it might also be a bad thing since bots can still reach Platinum before rank decay.

While I think saving the highest score a player reached in Crystal tier allows the top 100 players to play freely knowing their score is saved, it doesn't really invite newer players to attempt to beat their score if their score is already very high. Likewise, it doesn't mean the people at the top-100 will continue to play, after knowing they have successfully achieved top-100. Finally, it also means the top-100 players can throw games after knowing no one else can reach that ranking if not enough players are playing.

What really needs to be added in addition to the Rank Demotion is actually "Rank Decay" at higher ranks (Crystal tier) and removing the highest saved score for Crystal Credit. Not playing Crystalline Conflict for a certain number of days will make you decay your ranking slightly, and the rank decay increases progressively the longer you haven't played since your last match. Just playing one match every certain number of days will prevent rank decay entirely. I say rank decay should be a certain number of days rather than each day only because this is a MMO and ranked PvP is only a portion of the game. People still have other priorities, so giving a couple of days before a small decay is fair. However, the longer you aren't playing, the bigger the decay should be, since this is a very competitive reward to attain. This is what would make reaching top 100 more feasible while simultaneously ensuring the top-100 players will always be competitive to attain the requisite reward. Only those who have a very high skill level and play consistently can guarantee their placement -- and that would mean their placement is well deserved.


Of course, this ultimately hinges upon the fact that there will always be a queue -- which is determined based on how enticing the rewards are and how approachable it is for players to reach that rank. If the rewards aren't interesting at all, who would want to get the reward?

Originally Posted by Remish

The queues were only bad in about the gold tier.
I agree derank isn't the solution though. This only encourages cheating when you get to Diamond/Crystal. Especially if top 100 rewards start becoming more desirable. Sure lower tier will have more queue times but this opens other can of worms in the process and that's why I do not think it's the answer. Just feels like a "other games do it so we will to" cop out that doesn't address the actual problem.

You're not going to be able to stop cheating or the thought of it by just deciding whether demoting should exist or not. That needs to be combated directly with a proper report system and the staff to see this through. Just saying.

Honestly doesn't look bad since its only effects the two highest ranks if your good maintaining you Diamond and Crystal shouldn't be much of a task especially if you have a team you play with.

there is all kinds of jank happening with season 3

1) introduction of demotion from crystal to diamond and diamond to platinum
2) everyone who is currently ranked is starting back at bronze
3) final rewards are determined by your "high score" not your "final/current" score

personally i'm fine with the demotions at the top cuz in theory it should help to discourage win trading (but also 3rd thing kinda invalidates it)

I also think that everyone starting at bronze is fine however I think that should be a permanent feature
the way it's worded makes it sound like it will only happen this season

the 3rd thing is really not good in my opinion especially when combined with carried over ranks it could lead to queues drying up hard after a few weeks as ppl inevitably get strings of bad luck queues get demoted and think "screw it why bother climbing back up since I already had gotten to x points in crystal"

and win trading could still be a thing here once ppl feel comfortably "secure" with a high enough rating in crystal
then they can just fish for queues with friends and/or alts and throw themselves all the way back down to platinum if they wanted and be a complete liability to anyone else on their team who actually is still trying to climb
which then discourages the legitimate climbers from even bothering to queue and the whole thing devolves into 30m prime time queues again

Originally Posted by KageTokage

They seem to have a misconception about why people are having trouble winning in CC, which is, to put it bluntly, that most of the playerbase is painfully average at best, not that they're being lazy or not trying hard enough.

The actual fix to this is have some manner of skill grading and either protect you from demotion or make you get demoted faster depending on how much you're actually contributing on a match to match basis. Someone who is consistently taking the top spot for number of deaths or bottom spot for damage dealt as a DPS job probably has some serious issues they need to sort out.

If everyone is painfully average then everyone will win around 50% of the time. Also, contribution-based, modified OLE is a horrible idea, many games have proved this over the years.