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[aveyond-dreams]

They have had permanent injury and many characters have died.


You guys act like there were 0 deaths and no consequences in endwalker at all.

Also, for all your talk about loving fantasy, you sure seem to struggle with the fact that in a fantasy story with magic and world altering abilities, the main cast can avoid death in some ways.

Not for the main party, no. The characters did not grow, nor did they suffer lasting consequences. Their sole sacrifice was undone within the span of an hour. I expect better storytelling than this. Not enough was done with these characters to justify their survival.

Given that they escaped Endwalker unscathed and are now set to remain despite widespread voices from all sectors of the community calling for their retirement, their continued presence is reasonable cause for concern as the average side-character or antagonist is oftentimes better received than the typical scion.

[BaconBits]

One could say a similar thing in regards to those who are quick to call upon Game of Thrones whenever someone asks for something more to be done with the main cast, with a strong aversion to seeing anything harmful happen to these characters from permanent injury to death despite them ultimately being fictional creations.

Bring back Punished Thancred but with a Magitek Arm filled with ammunition to use in his Gunblade, complete with some WOAH HOOOOO's from Sins of the Father.

Seriously though, they need to either have some actual long-lasting consequences for the Scions, or failing that, put them out of the spotlight for a bit so we don't have to stare at their Vibranium-plated Plot Armor all day.

[SieyaM]

I don't think anyone would be complaining about death specifically if Ultima Thule wasn't a thing, especially with Yoshi-p talking about how this expansion was going to be so extreme and shock players. If you want the main cast to survive that's fine, if you want them to have plot armor that's also alright, but to have such blatantly false "death scenes" when we all know they aren't real makes it feel downright ridiculous. We are supposed to sit here and believe that all the scions are making some kind of heroic stand when we know full well it's going to amount to nothing.

[aveyond-dreams]

A while back I remember watching a playthrough of Plague Tale: Innocence and remember how I felt for some of the "party members" of that game that had been travelling along with us. Actual heroic sacrifices and last stands. Friction between people. Arguments. Tension. These are things anyone should expect of most RPGs. However, the scions aren't providing this to a sufficient degree to where they come across as believable - many have written them off entirely and it has been stated by too many people that they cannot take especially Y'shtola's actions seriously.

[Theodric]

They have had permanent injury and many characters have died.


You guys act like there were 0 deaths and no consequences in endwalker at all.

Also, for all your talk about loving fantasy, you sure seem to struggle with the fact that in a fantasy story with magic and world altering abilities, the main cast can avoid death in some ways.

I suppose this might be another post to potentially bookmark in order to keep track of the points being raised but as has been pointed out in the past it is specifically being requested that there are meaningful lasting consequences for at least some of the major protagonists.

Not just throwaway side characters of little relevance who are created with the intention of dying horribly. Not only antagonists and villains who are predictably given a sob story to induce sympathy and then unceremoniously killed off.

The occasional character on the level of Alisae, Y'shtola, Urianger, Raubhan, Nanamo or Merlwyb actually facing death in a meaningful and well written fashion would do wonders to portray some actual stakes.

I'm not convinced that one sided magic and world altering abilities are particularly engaging, either. Wanting more fantasy elements does not necessarily equal wanting them to manifest solely as an excuse to shield the major characters at almost every turn, especially when the story is written in such a way as to disallow the antagonists to score any meaningful on screen victories.

I want a compelling story and lasting consequences would achieve that as far as I'm concerned.

[Lauront]

It gets to the point where sometimes I wish the Soulsborne series never gained that reputation to begin with, but then people would just jump to the next comparison and use that instead.

Such as Ninja Gaiden U_U.

Yeah, especially when the intention is basically just to shut down any requests for a bit more difficulty in some modes, with the usual "go play that game instead".

[AwesomeJr44]

They have had permanent injury and many characters have died.

Really? Let's take a look at who died then. Ok, so we've got... the satrap of Radz at Han that got introduced as a side character for this very expansion, Zenos and Fandaniel, who were both the main villains and thus very probable to die, and Hydaelyn, that character who up until now has just been a voice in our heads. Very dramatic, much sacrificed. Very loss, such fire, much faith.

Huh, there doesn't seem to be any main characters on the list. Odd seeing as the main characters are the ones that have been accused of having enormous amounts of plot armor, so you'd think the writers would kill one off to prove that there are actual stakes here, but it seems like that didn't happen.

As for permanent injury... Yshtola is blind-ish?

[SieyaM]

Really? Let's take a look at who died then. Ok, so we've got... the satrap of Radz at Han that got introduced as a side character for this very expansion, Zenos and Fandaniel, who were both the main villains and thus very probable to die, and Hydaelyn, that character who up until now has just been a voice in our heads. Very dramatic, much sacrificed. Very loss, such fire, much faith.

Huh, there doesn't seem to be any main characters on the list. Odd seeing as the main characters are the ones that have been accused of having enormous amounts of plot armor, so you'd think the writers would kill one off to prove that there are actual stakes here, but it seems like that didn't happen.

As for permanent injury... Yshtola is blind-ish?

Raubahn lost an arm too, but he's rarely in content anymore.

[VelKallor]

many have written them off entirely and it has been stated by too many people that they cannot take especially Y'shtola's actions seriously.

"Maybe 10 or 20 people on this forum who would complain if the sky was a colour they didnt like at sunrise" - is a far more accurate statement.

[VelKallor]

despite widespread voices from all sectors of the community calling for their retirement,

....and your proof of this broad, sweeping claim is....?