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[aveyond-dreams]

If an expansion about the apocalypse wasn't the time to focus on more mature storytelling, especially darker and grittier aspects combined with lasting consequences for the protagonist faction then I don't know what is.

[Avatre]

But since they're actively attracting people like this and giving them absolutely no reason to improve, their own stance seems to be part of the problem.

They've been needing to dumb down a LOT of jobs due to how people refused to learn. They've changed a lot of mechanic tells(like stack markers - which I think was one of the few decent changes - to be all the same)/dungeons to be easier/more linear(or completely remove a mechanic that made a dungeon challenging, like iirc Aurum Vale - originally had some sort of "poison gas" element to it, but they removed it - was before my time though, so only have hearsay about it).

It's not them changing it to attract people, it's people demanding change because they don't want to actually get better a lot of the time.

[Deveryn]

They've been needing to dumb down a LOT of jobs due to how people refused to learn. They've changed a lot of mechanic tells(like stack markers - which I think was one of the few decent changes - to be all the same)/dungeons to be easier/more linear(or completely remove a mechanic that made a dungeon challenging, like iirc Aurum Vale - originally had some sort of "poison gas" element to it, but they removed it - was before my time though, so only have hearsay about it).

It's not them changing it to attract people, it's people demanding change because they don't want to actually get better a lot of the time.

The thing people are bitter about with Aurum Vale is Coincounter (and similar mobs) now having a clear telegraph on abilities, where you used to have to know your Swipe from your Swing. Eye of the Beholder didn't have a telegraph either, but with enough attempts, you would see it's a half donut. (Everything else is the same and there are still many wipes happening at the entrance.)

This is one of the things that was inconsistent in the progression of the game, where you would have all these telegraphs, then suddenly you don't get them on a mid-level boss. As we get more and more dungeons and other instanced content added, I think it's important to have that consistency if there's an expectation for people to go back and do older content. It gets to be too much to remember.

[DPZ2]

If an expansion about the apocalypse wasn't the time to focus on more mature storytelling, especially darker and grittier aspects combined with lasting consequences for the protagonist faction then I don't know what is.

Ah. The nub of your disdain is "lasting consequences". In a video game series known for throwing away NPC party members, but whose main characters return again. And again. And agai --- hello there Cid!

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

If an expansion about the apocalypse wasn't the time to focus on more mature storytelling, especially darker and grittier aspects combined with lasting consequences for the protagonist faction then I don't know what is.

You know, you can have "mature storytelling" (whatever that means) and dark and gritty without killing off half your cast. GoT isn't the end all be all of dark and gritty. You can have dark, gritty, and depressing and still have a happy ending.

[Theodric]

You know, you can have "mature storytelling" (whatever that means) and dark and gritty without killing off half your cast. GoT isn't the end all be all of dark and gritty. You can have dark, gritty, and depressing and still have a happy ending.

As has been pointed out over the numerous past occasions where the 'tHiS iS nOt GaMe Of ThRoNeS' line has been spouted, many of us aren't asking for mass death for the sake of mass death and are instead asking for death to occur where and when it makes sense. Cladding the bulk of the cast in extensive plot armour simply sends things in the opposite direction.

I would humbly suggest bookmarking this post if you're able to. It might help refresh your memory next time this same point is raised.

[DPZ2]

As has been pointed out over the numerous past occasions where the 'tHiS iS nOt GaMe Of ThRoNeS' line has been spouted, many of us aren't asking for mass death for the sake of mass death and are instead asking for death to occur where and when it makes sense. Cladding the bulk of the cast in extensive plot armour simply sends things in the opposite direction.

I would humbly suggest bookmarking this post if you're able to. It might help refresh your memory next time this same point is raised.

I saw no reason in this expansion for the deaths of Scions to take place. We didn't start seeing the primary cause for "doom, disaster and despair" until half-way through the expansion. The good guys were helping out the rest of the world but were never in any great life-threatening situation worse than the ones they handled in previous expansions.

You may choose to call it plot armour. I choose to call it experience.

[Theodric]

I saw no reason in this expansion for the deaths of Scions to take place. We didn't start seeing the primary cause for "doom, disaster and despair" until half-way through the expansion. The good guys were helping out the rest of the world but were never in any great life-threatening situation worse than the ones they handled in previous expansions.

You may choose to call it plot armour. I choose to call it experience.

Each to their own, self proclaimed heroes who are handed every possible plot device in order to succeed without barely breaking a sweat does not make them either relatable, interesting or inspirational to me. I also rather suspect quite a few people like the characters in question so much that their enthusiasts will say anything to justify their continued presence and the lack of meaningful, permanent harm being inflicted upon them.

It's pretty easy to have the characters preach about overcoming suffering and despair when they - and their fans - are sheltered from it on almost every front.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I saw no reason in this expansion for the deaths of Scions to take place. We didn't start seeing the primary cause for "doom, disaster and despair" until half-way through the expansion. The good guys were helping out the rest of the world but were never in any great life-threatening situation worse than the ones they handled in previous expansions.

You may choose to call it plot armour. I choose to call it experience.

To be fair, the Promotional Trailer had a Deathflag at the end with Alphi giving a speech to his Friends
If there was any time to think a Scion WOULD have died, it was then. There was no hint or idea that anyone WOULD die, except for Alphi at the end of the final Trailer.

I wont advocate for his death or say he should have died, but that did give the idea he would possibly die.

[AwesomeJr44]

The good guys were helping out the rest of the world but were never in any great life-threatening situation worse than the ones they handled in previous expansions.

This is the problem. These are supposed to be THE final days. THE apocalypse that brought the incredibly powerful and intelligent Ancients to their knees. Meanwhile, the Scions shrug it off like its no big deal. The final days SHOULD be a more threatening situation than anything we've faced before. But that itself is the issue, it's not. The very end of the world that was built up to be this unthinkable disaster is nothing worse than anything we've faced before. It's just another little problem for the scions to forge ahead through. The second coming of the final days was a joke.

'tHiS iS nOt GaMe Of ThRoNeS'

True, but if it was, Endwalker would be season 8 lol