Rescue is Griefing

[AnotherPerson]

Rescue should be opt in or opt out and I don't get why the idea of giving players the choice to be rescued or not got people frothing at the mouth.

Personally I've had enough of being rescued 10 seconds before the mechanic goes off when I was already slidecasting my way to the safe spot in the first place. DF healers tend not to know better.

If it's opt-in and opt-out, then the skill won't always activate when the healer uses it, thereby throwing the healer off and wasting their time to judge the situation and try to pull you to safety. Human error is normal - all players make it, whether by being DPS, tank, or healer. Trying to remove a healer's utility because you don't like it is because they have the possibility of griefing you is comparable to the healer saying "I don't want you to greed for DPS because you have the possibility of taking damage and making my job harder, thereby griefing me".

In that case, you might as well just sign an opt-out raise of shame if you ever happen to die.

[Midareyukki]

On one hand, I don't see why giving players a buff to select when to yeet to the stooge that gave it to you is such a bad thing. It offers what OP wants: consent, it's less intrusive and it places the responsability 100% on the person for clicking it too late\early\not at all rather than on the healer for using it at all.

We have two duty action buttons as it is, it's not like repurposing one is going to break anything. Plus, could even allow for more actions of the sort.

On the other hand, it does defy the purpose of Rescue. Often, healers rescue you specifically because they see you screw up and you WON'T have the mindset\knowledge of the mechanic\reaction time to correct it. So sometimes giving up a bit of control is good for you not wasting them 2400 MP and some sanity. And some DPS for the whole party.

"Just leave me dead" is all fun and games until you realize this could save entire parties if the next mechanic requires specific people to be alive.

[ZedxKayn]

If it's opt-in and opt-out, then the skill won't always activate when the healer uses it, thereby throwing the healer off and wasting their time to judge the situation and try to pull you to safety. Human error is normal - all players make it, whether by being DPS, tank, or healer. Trying to remove a healer's utility because you don't like it is because they have the possibility of griefing you is comparable to the healer saying "I don't want you to greed for DPS because you have the possibility of taking damage and making my job harder, thereby griefing me".

In that case, you might as well just sign an opt-out raise of shame if you ever happen to die.

Tbf I'm deeply dissatisfied with the current state of healers, so much that I pretty much quit the role when EW dropped despite my then undying love for AST, but as far as utility goes, a skill that messes with the experiences of other players to such an intrusive extent is probably the last type of utility I'd want.

I think a design similar to Thresh's lantern would be best because it is entirely non-intrusive. Getting rescued when you're enjoying uptime (or alternatively trying your goddamn best not to die of boredom) feels awful, whereas I think a "lantern" would be very satisfying. To keep on the LoL comparison, there's a reason Thresh's lantern is one of the most satisfying skills in the game while Tahm Kench's ally vore tech makes people mald. The latter is basically rescue.

To explain the lantern, Thresh throws it where he choses (so in XIV's case the equivalent of the lantern would probably be thrown at the boss's ass) and whoever clicks it will be dragged to Thresh. So it's basically as if the healer was "offering" a rescue while allowing the potential rescuee to first off choose IF they want to take it, and then WHEN they want to take it.
Because I do actually like rescue used well but a good 95% of the rescues me or the people I queue with have gotten casted on have been absolute ass and personally I dislike getting rescued a lot more than I dislike raising or healing people.

[Bobby66]

I don't think I'm perfect or that I don't need help at times, but I've had rescue kill me more times than save me sadly. If anything your response seems like a projection. You seem to think that you are the ultimate healer who can do no wrong.



Raising someone isn't god moding? You're sacrificing 2000 MP and Swiftcast(sometimes, othertimes just valuable time) to bring someone back who you then have to heal and who then has the weakness status for almost two minutes. That's pretty fair, isn't it?

And no, what happened is they rescued me as we were both running towards the rest of the party. The party wasn't even that far away, and right as I got to the party I was pulled right back to where they had cast rescue. Perhaps they lagged and saw me far behind them, who knows, but considering I was out performing them for the entire fight, they should have kept to themselves. Also I love how you make the assumption that they were already with the party. Honestly, that alone voids the majority of your arguments.

And since you're so confident that mistiming or misjudging a rescue is not abuse, then I assure you, from now on I will report all failed instances of rescue that result in the death of the one being "rescued." We'll find out if it's punishable or not by whether or not the GMs take action.



And people are sitting here defending the action, while you're sitting here bragging about breaking the rules with it why, exactly?

Cause this is a non issue that is why. It is a 2 min cooldown relax. Also you will be hard pressed to prove it was done with malicious intent, or are you advocating for a a throw the baby out with the bath water approach? Also would not say I was bragging was mostly juts confirming that some do use it as a tank a leash.

[Midareyukki]

I think a design similar to Thresh's lantern would be best because it is entirely non-intrusive. Getting rescued when you're enjoying uptime (or alternatively trying your goddamn best not to die of boredom) feels awful, whereas I think a "lantern" would be very satisfying. To keep on the LoL comparison, there's a reason Thresh's lantern is one of the most satisfying skills in the game while Tahm Kench's ally vore tech makes people mald. The latter is basically rescue.

I can vouch for this. I don't mald with Tahm's devour, but it does catch me off guard, both as a teammate and as an opponent. Thresh feels fairer.

But as I mentioned above, the issue with this is people having the reaction to use the Lantern. Some people are idiots and don't know they're diving into danger. Some don't know the mechanic at all. Some people are too slow to react or mistime the action. And some people just get distracted.

Which, great, it removes the blame from the healer, as all responsibility will now fall on the person being rescued, but sometimes an impromptu and intrusive rescue can save a whole run.

Edit: Not saying it's a bad idea, just that there are caveats we either need to accept or work around. It's not clear-cut.

[ZedxKayn]

And this is why jobs and other game elements have been streamlined to the point there is no difference between them.

Also I find this reply ironic considering that rescue is a role-wide action and thus participates in making healers feel indistinguishable from one another.

[Packetdancer]

We need the option to choose if a Healer can cast Rescue on us.

Just give me a /rescueoff so I can toggle wether or not I can be rescued

Rescue should be opt in or opt out and I don't get why the idea of giving players the choice to be rescued or not got people frothing at the mouth.

As I have said in many (many, many, many) other threads...

Rescue is a janky tool at the best of times; even when I know it will save someone, I often don't bother trying—at least on the first pull or two—because half the time Rescue goes off after it should, and sometimes that's a tiny bit too late. And yeah, it's jarring and sometimes embarrassing/annoying when you get Rescued.

Despite that, it is frequently the only option I have for saving people. And if I do not use it, I am going to be out 2400 MP (unless I'm on WHM with Thin Air off cooldown) as well as either my Swiftcast or 8 seconds of cast time.

It is a terrible tool, but it is also the only tool SQEX has given us for those scenarios.

And if in addition to the janky timing and behavior, there was a solid chance that Rescue just would not work, I know that I personally—and quite a few other healers—would simply not use it. Which would be, functionally, equivalent to removing Rescue.

So if it's a choice between a 'disable toggle' on Rescue that makes it useless or actually getting rid of it—the latter option at least is likely to have SQEX giving us some other tool to use.

If Rescue needs to go, then actually get rid of it so there's a chance of getting something useful in its place. Don't kill it, remove all the organs, and then prop the taxidermied corpse up in a chair and go "Look! Rescue's still here! You don't need a different tool; you still have this one!"

Because, you want to know a secret? Most healers don't like Rescue. It is, as I said, janky in the best of circumstances. We only hold onto it because it is the only option SQEX has given us to save people in many situations.

If people approach this not as "Rescue is terrible, healers are trolls, we should take away their one tool that can keep people alive in many of these situations." but rather come at it as "Rescue is a flawed tool, let's brainstorm some better alternatives that can work to save people in the scenarios Rescue is meant to." then I promise you, most healers will be your allies in that discussion.

I have, in previous threads, suggested multiple designs for a replacement for Rescue. The simplest is one where instead of moving someone, it puts a buff on them for, say, 15 seconds. If they drop below 1 HP during the time they have the buff, they instead are rocketed to the healer's side (for those 'the arena is vanishing' or knockback scenarios), left alive with 1 HP, and given the Brink of Death debuff (e.g. the one you get from a double-rez).

Under that design, if the person did have a plan to get out of the bad, then hey, the buff drops off and nothing happens; no debuff, no being moved to the healer's side. If they did not have a plan to get to safety (or executed that plan poorly), the healer is at least not out 2400 MP and potentially 8 seconds of slow-casting a rez. The Brink of Death debuff means you can't cheese it ("Look, an extra tank invuln!") without consequence.

And the ability only fires if the person was going to die; if they want to try to complain that they were moved against their well... well, if it went off, they would've been dead without it. Meaning they would still have ended up where the healer is standing by virtue of that being how rezzes work; you show up where the healer who raised you is standing.

This is, of course, far from the only possible replacement you could make for Rescue; it's just a relatively simple one, and demonstrates how you could make an ability that it would be difficult to use for trolling. (After all, if it goes off, it means that if it hadn't gone off the person would've otherwise been dead.)

Come at the discussion from that angle, and I can almost promise you that you will meet much less resistance from healers.

(Not, of course, that SQEX is likely to make class/role balance decisions based on forum threads regardless, but still.)

Rescue isn’t god modeing. If it is, then simply playing a healer is god modeing because healers determine if you live or die.

I feel like this merits quoting Josh Strife Hayes, as regards MMO healers: "You're all sacks of hitpoints, and I'm god; never forget that!"

[Elkanah]

Did anyone notice the healer in the new FFXIV player guide (they just released on the lodestone)? The SCH rescued the adventurer back to the screen! TOXIC lullll. I love how it's become a thing in XIV and the community team is rolling with it.

[Mika_Zahard]

When revealed in 2017 everybody said it'd be used for griefing.

It was griefing in Stormblood. It was griefing in Shadowbringers. And it's still just griefing in Endwalker.

Even in rare cases where Rescue has a real use, like rescuing dive3 into the stack in UCOB, it still ends up griefing because half the time the healer Rescues early, pulling the divebomb into the group. And for what? For nothing. Not only can you now skip divebombs entirely, you don't need 8 people for that stack.

The ability shouldn't exist if its only use is extremely niche in high-end content that the majority of players won't ever touch.

If you think you need Rescue because another player keeps standing in AoEs constantly, realize that same player could be casting Rescue on you. There is no skill check when you cast Rescue. Healers are not automatically better than other players just because their role icon is green.

I'm sick of healers tossing me off ledges, pulling me into AoEs, and ruining my uptime in casual content for no reason. Rescue is negatively impacting my gameplay. I have never had a positive experience with Rescue.

Stop standing in bad and position properly.

[TaleraRistain]

I tend to use Rescue sparingly. I agree with NekoMataMata's general point that I'm deciding for someone else when I use it. I try to give my party mates the benefit of the doubt that they have a plan. Unless it's something I know is insta-death and they won't make it to the safe area in time. Or they have been missing mechanics and I'm not confident they won't continue to miss them. But I'm generally pretty chill even if they get a vuln here and there so long as it's not putting undue strain on my ability to maintain support for the entire party.

As Packetdancer mentioned, Rescue can be janky sometimes. I really don't like the drag animation. I would be a lot happier if it was an instant warp. Because I have accidentally killed people with server lag and yanking them through the bad. I apologized and most were pretty cool about it. So I'm not afraid of using Rescue. I just don't find a lot of instances where I feel it needs to be used. I wouldn't cry if they got rid of it, since it can be used for some rather obnoxious purposes. If they did, then I'd be happy to get a gap closer instead.