Rescue is Griefing

[Gemina]

Just have to say some of the posts in this thread on the anti-rescue side have been hilarious. The drama and mental gymnastics people go through to try and paint something that barely matters as a game-breaking evil is impressive. I would join the arguments, but this thread comes up every month, logic is always ignored here and life's too short. But it's good entertainment nonetheless.

Couldn't agree more. When I find my arguments focus on not even defending Rescue's existence and viability, but more along the lines of "No snowflake. The battle you're in does not revolve around you." it just becomes pointless to continue. Still, I can't help mentioning the truth bomb that Rescue is fine, working as intended, and it isn't going anywhere or being changed anytime soon.

[Padudu]

Just have to say some of the posts in this thread on the anti-rescue side have been hilarious. The drama and mental gymnastics people go through to try and paint something that barely matters as a game-breaking evil is impressive. I would join the arguments, but this thread comes up every month, logic is always ignored here and life's too short. But it's good entertainment nonetheless.

It's more about the attitude of some rescue-enjoyers more than anything tbh lol. Who said it's game-breaking? People even straight up say, it's not like it's an everyday occurrence nor does it really matter that much since it happens infrequently, but those who have this attitude of "it doesn't matter, you missed one gcd, who cares about your uptime, lol lmao" also grate on people's nerves because well, the DPS who gets a little irritated at rescues will naturally care about their uptime and getting their rotation right, even if its normal content lol. Having someone pull you when you're perfectly fine can be annoying; especially if the attitude is "no, you stand here because I said so. It's not your god given right to stand on that spot." Yeah I wonder why people would get annoyed at rescue when that's the attitude that can come along with it?

Everyone is fine when you rescue with good intentions or it was a mistake. Shit happens, naturally I would figure most people would be like, "Bro its fine, I got this." and go on their merry DPS way. Everyone is not fine when you use rescue to micromanage what the DPS are doing because you happen to not like where they're standing and then act like you know better on top of that.

Like you say, it barely matters, so why act like you rescuing a DPS who can take a hit from a mechanic is gonna save the run or something lol?

[HyoMinPark]

Who said it's game-breaking?

To be fair, there was a person in this thread arguing against Rescue because it was essentially “god modeing”/playing god with someone’s character. As of healing itself isn’t basically playing god.

I don’t think Rescue is that big of a deal. It has its uses. A good healer knows when and where to apply them (such as when something might actually get a teammate killed—not the random circle AOE in a 24-man that doesn’t even do half their health); but they do sometimes make mistakes or mistime it, and that’s also fine. It’s not “abuse” like people enjoy saying.

[VerdeLuck]

To be fair, there was a person in this thread arguing against Rescue because it was essentially “god modeing”/playing god with someone’s character. As of healing itself isn’t basically playing god.

I don’t think Rescue is that big of a deal. It has its uses. A good healer knows when and where to apply them (such as when something might actually get a teammate killed—not the random circle AOE in a 24-man that doesn’t even do half their health); but they do sometimes make mistakes or mistime it, and that’s also fine. It’s not “abuse” like people enjoy saying.

You think it doesn't get used for griefing much because you play healer, it's pretty much every run of Dhon Mheg or every 4-5 runs of crystal tower where I'm not healer is where I see it. GMs also rarely act on reports other than telling you to just blacklist them so that does a whole lot of nothing.

[HyoMinPark]

You think it doesn't get used for griefing much because you play healer, it's pretty much every run of Dhon Mheg or every 4-5 runs of crystal tower where I'm not healer is where I see it. GMs also rarely act on reports other than telling you to just blacklist them so that does a whole lot of nothing.

I’ve done a lot of CT raids and Dohn Mheg during my tenure in this game—the former especially since I’ve been playing this game for 6 1/2 years now. It is definitely not a common occurrence in the runs I have even when I am not on healer. Certainly not every run. Please don’t exaggerate if you’re trying to make a legitimate argument.

I’ve learned from reading responses in this thread that people conflate “griefing” with legitimate mistakes and mistimings. Considering someone told me as such they are going to report every instance of Rescue when someone ends up dying, and scoffed at the idea of a healer perhaps making a mistake that gets others killed. There’s also simply a huge negative bias against it that has constantly made people post about Rescue like it being used nefariously is 99% of the uses (I believe there’s even someone who said this outright).

[Bobby66]

You think it doesn't get used for griefing much because you play healer, it's pretty much every run of Dhon Mheg or every 4-5 runs of crystal tower where I'm not healer is where I see it. GMs also rarely act on reports other than telling you to just blacklist them so that does a whole lot of nothing.

I will bite, let us say it happens to you every 4 to 5 runs of CT, what exactly is your point? That is still in the grand scheme of the amount of players in this game barely statically relevant. Let us be generous and say it happens 5% of every dungeon ran across the board. Do you really think that is large enough percentage that warrants it removal? Or are you going to say that that is more like 20 to 25% or even 50%?

Why take the throw the baby out with the bath water approach for something that is in the grand scheme not very common. Sure it may be common to you, but that is you and I doubt you can say with a straight face that it is common across the board of all players.

[Sebazy]

You think it doesn't get used for griefing much because you play healer, it's pretty much every run of Dhon Mheg or every 4-5 runs of crystal tower where I'm not healer is where I see it. GMs also rarely act on reports other than telling you to just blacklist them so that does a whole lot of nothing.

I'm sorry but that's absolute BS.

Yes I main healer, but I do casual content as a dancer because playing healer in 24 is unbearably boring at this point.

Since 6.1 I've seen exactly one case of rescue getting abused. It was in Aglaia at Nald'Thal, the noise gave it away and they immediately got kicked out of the duty. I've personally accidentally fat fingered it once in dead ends pre 6.1 as well but no harm came of it and I apologised profusely for it. That's 2 occurrences in hundreds of duties since EW.

By comparison, I see tanks refusing to put on stance and take agro practically every other 24 man run which usually does get someone else killed. Where's your energy for that son?

[Padudu]

To be fair, there was a person in this thread arguing against Rescue because it was essentially “god modeing”/playing god with someone’s character. As of healing itself isn’t basically playing god.

I don’t think Rescue is that big of a deal. It has its uses. A good healer knows when and where to apply them (such as when something might actually get a teammate killed—not the random circle AOE in a 24-man that doesn’t even do half their health); but they do sometimes make mistakes or mistime it, and that’s also fine. It’s not “abuse” like people enjoy saying.

Oh yeah, fair enough. I had completely forgotten about that - should've taken a glance over at the previous pages again. But yeah, it's hardly god-modding lol much less abuse.

I agree with you overall. It has uses and under a good healer it's great when they need to utilize it. Rescue in itself is not a big deal and all it really comes down to (which I suspect is the main reason for the beef in this thread) is the attitude of the healer and DPS. People like to exaggerate of course, but I can understand the sentiment of:

Anti-Rescue POV: I know when I can take an aoe. I want to keep my rotation and my uptime. I know what I'm doing. Stop trying to drag me to wherever.
Rescue-Enjoyer POV: I don't know you in DF/PF. I have no idea what you know or don't know. I rescued you to be safe. It's not a big deal to lose one GCD.

In all, conflicting interests and it just comes down to having moderately OK communication. Just tell the healer, "I appreciate it, but don't worry, I can handle myself. My uptime matters, so please don't disrupt that."
And the healer should cooperate in kind; "Sorry, I just wanted to play it safe - you're off the leash now."

Bam, done. Most rescues just happen due to the lack of communication. They don't know you, you don't know them, so just giving them a kind word and letting them know it's all alright would be beneficial for everyone. Abuse only starts when people get angry off the bat thinking the healer is doing bad things intentionally, or that the DPS is a dummy who doesn't know the mechanics. When you reflect either of those attitudes in the way you write, it really shows, and that's where the problem lies IMO.

[NekoMataMata]

Snip

You haven't seen people on the pro-rescue side making troll threads and calling people names for disagreeing with them then. You want to talk about logic though, so sure, let's talk.

1) It's awkward to use due to the delay between it moving the player in question and from when it's been used. There are also some weird interactions with certain game mechanics since knockbacks, teleports and pulls all override each other.

2) A lot of players find it disorientating when used on them, especially if they're a player that had a plan in mind for moving to a safe zone. Imagine Rescueing a DRG or RDM and they suddenly flip away back into danger because they were intending to flip away from the danger prior to your attempted Rescue.

3) It also completely removes individual responsibility and promotes godmodding. For those that don't know, godmodding is a rp term for when one player conducts actions that control another player directly. It's shamed and people used to blank people if they pulled it even a tiny bit. This is a MMORPG and Rescue falls in the same vein. You are moving another player. Regardless of how frustrating another player might be, it breaks a certain boundary that shouldn't be broken. People will argue that long cooldown makes it okay or that healing is also controlling another player(when it clearly isn't).

4) Most healers aren't skilled enough to use it properly either. In addition to the delay between cast and activation a lot of healers are woefully unaware of the fact that rescue moves their target to where they are standing when they cast it, rather than where they are located when the ability goes off. In combination with the earlier issues, most healers also don't have the aptitude to assess their team and make decisions on whether the player in question can handle themselves or not. That DPS that just hit one of their movement abilities making them fall into the danger zone right after said healer Rescued was playing fine for 90% of the dungeon. That Tank that was standing at the edge of the healer's earthly star/asylum/sacred soil during a pull was moving out of the way of a bunch of aoe markers before said healer dragged them back into them. Said tank had never moved out of their abilities prior, yet again, said healer didn't bother to judge the situation.

5) On top of it all, we have people abusing it for their own amusement. Some people enjoy Rescueing players to their deaths. Some people use it to leash their tanks, pulling them along through the dungeon every 2 minutes. People in this very thread have admitted to doing this even.

Do what you will with these reasonings but at the least please respect the fact that they were laid out without calling the other players in this thread incompetent and without aggressive name calling.

[Nyxs]

You haven't seen people on the pro-rescue side making troll threads and calling people names for disagreeing with them then. You want to talk about logic though, so sure, let's talk.


3) It also completely removes individual responsibility and promotes godmodding. For those that don't know, godmodding is a rp term for when one player conducts actions that control another player directly. It's shamed and people used to blank people if they pulled it even a tiny bit. This is a MMORPG and Rescue falls in the same vein. You are moving another player. Regardless of how frustrating another player might be, it breaks a certain boundary that shouldn't be broken. People will argue that long cooldown makes it okay or that healing is also controlling another player(when it clearly isn't).

Do what you will with these reasonings but at the least please respect the fact that they were laid out without calling the other players in this thread incompetent and without aggressive name calling.

No one is going to take you seriously nor respect someone who cant tell the difference between roleplay and a role-playing game. Perhaps take this part out and you’ll have a slight chance. This isn’t godmodding at all because of the difference. You perhaps need to think really really hard on why you feel this way and find ways to deal with that instead of being worried about a skill in a video game.