Houses - Make a Difference Campaign

[Ransu]

If we go this route, ability to acquire Medium and Large FC houses should be tied to the size of your FC. Meaning, those with only 8 members certainly do not need anything larger than a small. And since 512 members is the limit. I suggest:
Less than 200 Members = a small FC should be fine
200 -400 - a medium
400+ a large.

All that would do is encourage super FC's and punish small FC's. SWTOR guild ships and conquest do that crap and I despise systems that encourage and benefit super guilds heavily.

[Solarra]

@Jojoya - Thanks for making this suggestion. I definitely get the impression that posting on the forums about the supply of houses and suggesting ways to increase it, has had no effect at all besides helping people to vent their frustration.

@Silverbane - ofc you can suggest anything you want, but most companies who ignore customer feedback eventually come to rue it (just ask Blizzard).

[axetastic]

I left them the suggestion that they ignore all the complaints about houses that result from this orchestrated astro-turfing and follow their own vision for the game, since it is that vision that has made FFXIV the successful game that it is and that I enjoy.

@Silverbane - ofc you can suggest anything you want, but most companies who ignore customer feedback eventually come to rue it (just ask Blizzard).

Good point with the Blizz comparison. That person's comment also ignores the fact that people are abusing the system in ways the devs never intended. Certainly their vision for the game's neighborhoods never involved botting (in the placard clicking days), or instances of a single person hoarding multiple houses. The devs may not see these problems if they're not closely involved in their own housing system. That's the entire point of feedback.

Making things better isn't astroturfing. Just because a lot of the game is great (and it is) doesn't mean that there's not room for improvement.

Another bit of feedback that I'll be adding is about the length of the lottery periods. If the devs intend to keep the lottery as it is, then the cycles are just way too long.

Of course, nothing is going to be as good of a solution as instanced housing.

[Silverbane]

Making things better isn't astroturfing.

The only way that sentence isn't nonsense is if you have no idea what astroturfing is, in this context.
Astroturfing is a strategy for corrupting a feedback process, one commonly employed in politics.
Whether someone employing it makes things better or worse depends and is usually highly subjective.
Some people consider such corruption of a process always bad.
Others think the ends justifies the means -- but then, they often think any means justify their ends, but that other people's ends never justify any means at all.

It's amusing, in a dark way, to watch the "fix housing" advocates with their grand sweeping proposals, because there is no chance at all that any of those proposals would be implemented before patch 7.1, over two years from now, if ever. For that reason, all these complaints will just be filed away, probably to never be looked at again.

Oh, but SE shouldn't ignore customer feedback, people say. Nonsense.

Customers are in general selfish and ignorant: they know only what they want, and it's always more for less, and they don't know the effort required to provide what they want, or whether it will actually improve the game's financials. They often tend to act like little side games the developers threw in to give them something to do between content releases are really important to the game, and its success, when they aren't. And they naturally congregate into echo chambers, becoming more and more strident and less and less relevant to the rest of the player base.

Accordingly, the best strategy is often to usually ignore your customers ... but pretend you don't.
And with that in mind, I give you: the FFXIV English forums.

[axetastic]

Oh, but SE shouldn't ignore customer feedback, people say. Nonsense.

Customers are in general selfish and ignorant: they know only what they want, and it's always more for less, and they don't know the effort required to provide what they want, or whether it will actually improve the game's financials.

This worked really well for Blizz with the whole Classic Wow debacle (and continues to work well for them now).

Regarding your explanation of astroturfing, I personally don't think that's what's happening here. I think the devs are legitimately trying to fix the issue. But it's slow going, and I think a lot of the feedback - which I believe to be legitimate - is not reaching them.

Your point about the English forums is well taken, which is the whole idea behind this thread.

[Silverbane]

This [ignoring customer complaints] worked really well for Blizz with the whole Classic Wow debacle

That has nothing to do with it. No amount of listening to forum complaints can make up for a lack of talent, vision, and commitment in the dev team.

Your point about the English forums is well taken, which is the whole idea behind this thread.

And the likely result of the campaign advocated by this thread is that SE will start to ignore the "Leave a Suggestion" feedback just like it ignores this forum. Assuming they are not already doing that.

It's not the format of the English forums that leads to them being ignored by the devs. It's the content. Polluting other venues with that content will not be productive.

[axetastic]

If you want to be defeatist, that's your right, but why suck others into your whirlpool? Let us yell at the sky if we wanna.

That feedback box is there for a reason.

[CammyBear]

Oh, trust me, Jojoya, I've submitted at least one suggestion through that system. I'm starting to think they just don't care.

My main concern for right now is why is there little to nothing (okay, probably more likely nothing) being said publicly in response to the feedback given. Why the silence? Why can't they just say why xyz isn't being done? It feels disrespectful.

Island Sanctuaries look fun, but there's still not enough info about them for me to make a decision on whether or not I'd like to even bother. I know there's a Live Letter coming soon, so I'd really hope they actually show customization options regarding the house and yard and stuff. No more vague chocobo-dung, please.

...and, in case people are wondering... Yes, I do have a FC private quarters, though I'd prefer a house of my own. A real house. Aside from that, I'm not here to argue about whether or not anyone is entitled to anything. I'm just here to add to Jojoya's discussion, not to derail and go over opinions on policies/opinions regarding who "deserves" a house (hence why this is my only paragraph on this topic for this post. I'm not here for that. I don't care if you think otherwise. This is about getting through to Sqaure Enix, not you.) So let's try to be civil and stick to the main issue. Please and thank you.

<coughs> Back on topic... Seriously, though. I want to hear from them in a recent, official post as to why they don't want to do instanced housing. (If they never said as much, maybe they could release a statement to clear things up and do away with any misinformation.) But at least be straight with me and tell me what is actually going on so I know if I can keep hanging onto this game or just drop it for a while. I'm not paying a sub to not have a house.

My sub ends in about 15 (or 16? I'll have to double-check) days. I'm seriously considering letting it lapse for a while if I don't win a house by then. The length of time depends on what they reveal in the Live Letter, and <sighs> if they ever actually say anything in response to this feedback. Not doing too great a job keeping customers like this, in my opinion.

[Silverbane]

If you want to be defeatist, that's your right ...

You talking about me? Because I'm not being defeatist at all:

The devs have a track record of success, and I enjoy the game their vision has led them to create.
I win when they ignore forum complaints and continue following that vision.
I'm not arrogant enough to believe I know how to make an MMO better than they do.
That's a humility too many posters here lack.

[axetastic]

And the likely result of the campaign advocated by this thread is that SE will start to ignore the "Leave a Suggestion" feedback just like it ignores this forum. Assuming they are not already doing that.

It's not the format of the English forums that leads to them being ignored by the devs. It's the content.

That was the bit that felt a little defeatest to me.

We are in agreement about one thing - we both enjoy this game. Actually, this is my favorite game, and my favorite MMO of all time (I played a lot of WoW, Everquest, and Wildstar before this). The housing community has so much creativity and passionate people, and it's also the place in this game where I see the most conflict. I'd like if our voices were heard in a way that helped improve an already great game, so that everyone could enjoy housing, not just a few lucky people.

And this is spoken as one of those lucky people who already has a house. I'd just love to have access to a bigger house, or at least more outdoor furnishings so I can make a pretty garden.

I want to hear from them in a recent, official post as to why they don't want to do instanced housing.

Did they ever give a reason besides the neighborhood thing? I only got into housing in Shadowbringers. Genuinely curious.