On Azem's role in the story

[Cleretic]

So this is something that's been bugging me since Shadowbringers' patches, and over time in Endwalker I've received nothing but further questions. But it's not really about in-story logic, events, or motivations; rather it's more of a question of writer intention.

I don't know what the point of Azem is, or why they were added into the story.

To clarify, I'm talking about the individual that was Azem at the point of the Sundering; the purpose of the seat is justified just fine, and of course Venat is absolutely an integral part of the story. I am referring to the character for which we only have the name 'Azem' for, the one that's obviously the WoL's unsundered counterpart.

I don't know what this character adds, and I don't know what the point was (or perhaps still is), which causes problems for any interpretations, analysis, or predictions; if I don't have an idea why they're here, I can't guess how they might factor in the future.

Because here's the thing: they cannot influence the story they are closest to. This is something I've brought up oh-so-many times here, but it remains true: as a player insert, Azem has to sit out the events surrounding Zodiark and Hydaelyn, because it's meant to be a problem with no easy answer; a player-insert weighing in on the problem destroys that, because then suddenly the question mutates into one with right and wrong answers; of course the player-insert made the choice we're supposed to agree with, thereby instead casting the alternatives as choices we should disagree with. This is even true if they shot for a third answer instead of picking either of the established ones; that devalues both Zodiark and Hydaelyn. That's why they left the Convocation before the Zodiark summoning, and why they didn't respond to Venat's crew, but why neither time had an established reason; they needed to write Azem out of the conflict, but not in a way that rejected either side of it.

...but I feel like that problem would've been solved more easily by just not writing Azem in the first place. This isn't like when a superhero story has to write out the guy that can most easily solve the problem so they can have a story, Azem didn't exist before now; they were written in to be written out.

So I'm left to assume that Azem was written in for another purpose. And so far they've had four little 'blips' of presence elsewhere--but I don't really think any of them were necessary either.

1. As a way for us to personally connect to the people of Amaurot--they're friends with Emet, Hyth and Venat, and so we should be too. I don't think that was necessary, because we all know people fawn over the Ancient cast anyway, and pick favorites regardless of Azem's connection.
2. Establishment of similarities between the WoL and Venat; they held the same office, so obviously there's commonalities. ...but in literally the very first line of Venat's to the WoL, she provides an entirely different olive branch, and through all of Elpis connects to the WoL as the WoL, rather than any connection to Azem. So that's out.
3. As a way to bring in Azem's crystal, everyone's favorite way to justify eight-player parties (friendship ended with seven conveniently-nearby fishing buddies). I certainly won't deny its value there, it was indispensible in Endwalker's trials... but in just the patch MSQ where we got that crystal, we interacted with two different people who had functionally identical abilities. So if they were added just to provide the crystal, why wouldn't they have instead had us get the ability from Elidibus or the Exarch? Connect it to a physical object like maybe part of the Exarch's staff, so it can still be an external thing we can hold out at opportune times.
4. Finally, their nebulous future-sight being the impetus for Pandaemonium, which is also the only place Azem might still turn up. This one I honestly think is the weakest, because Azem's future-sight doesn't come up meaningfully elsewhere, and we haven't needed stuff like that before to justify us turning up to normal raids in the middle of nowhere; why did we suddenly need it this time? And for that matter, why did the premonition have to come from Azem and not, say, an obvious Unsundered version of Mikoto or something?

So... yeah. I'm lost. I literally cannot figure out the point to Azem, that was so important that they needed to be added. They don't add anything that wouldn't be better served by someone else already there--or in some cases by literally nothing.

Why are they part of this story?

[Vyrerus]

Why are they part of this story?

Easy. It was the easiest way to give motivation to Emet-selch to want to personally talk to the player throughout the events of Shadowbringers. Rather than motivation for the player to like the Ancients, it's motive for the Ancient characters to like the player.

Think about the scene just before the Scions and the citizenry of Eulmore get The Ladder working. Emet-selch appears before you, and only you, to speak about Amaurot for the first time, while making facial ques that he's hopeful that he sparks a memory in the WoL. But of course, he doesn't.

Think ahead to when Elidibus first sends the WoL back in time to the Elpis facility. We're a shade, intangible. No one can hear us. Only Hythlodaeus and Hades can see us. And it's the fact that our soul resembles the current Azems that prompts Hythlodaeus to nag Hades into giving us form.

The Azem crystal, again, represents Hades's connection to Azem and us through them. It also had to be a functionally different ability from what Elidibus was using, because every person summoned in that way added to his power.

So, you tell me, what better way would there be to make the Ascians / Ancients want to interact with the player in a friendly way? (As an aside, Venat interacts with the WoL differently because she doesn't seem to have the special sight Hades and Hyth have. She smells her own magic, and is drawn to us as a message from herself. It's a tad conceited, but I digress)

[Cleretic]

So, you tell me, what better way would there be to make the Ascians / Ancients want to interact with the player in a friendly way? (As an aside, Venat interacts with the WoL differently because she doesn't seem to have the special sight Hades and Hyth have. She smells her own magic, and is drawn to us as a message from herself. It's a tad conceited, but I digress)

Frankly, I don't think they need it.

Hythlodaeus is a frustratingly friendly and helpful guy who probably would've said and done exactly the same things anyway. Granted, we have absolutely zero context for how Hyth deals with strangers thanks to him only knowing us as someone he recognizes... but since we've never seen him around strangers anyway, who's to say that's not his normal demeanor anyway?
Venat confirmably doesn't need it, she barrelled right past that plot hook to instead grab onto a much more personally interesting one (and frankly, one that probably would've worked for Emet and Hyth if they really needed it).
And Emet... well, I would never once consider our interactions with Emet friendly, he never once got warmer than 'begrudging tolerance' with us.

But further on Emet, I don't think he needs Azem as motivation either, he's already got plenty. Emet allegedly cares about his people, and wants us to realize that too. He also knows that the Echo is a sign of someone whose soul goes back to Amaurot (even if we wouldn't learn that for another couple patches), so that's his reason for nostalgizing to us; he knows that we, unlike everyone else, actually does have some capacity to remember that. He also doesn't need Azem as a personal connection to motivate him; mostly that's because he never discusses something like that, but even if he did, Hythlodaeus is up there in Zodiark; that's all the personal motivation he needs.

So yeah, I don't really think this squares either. And even if it did... I mean, surely they could've written that without making the person he recognizes us as an ex-member of the Convocation, and they definitely could've not brought them in for Pandaemonium.

[Lurina]

This is all predicated on the strange idea that stories are written with logical, mechanical intent first and foremost, which obviously isn't true. Azem was probably introduced because the writers thought it'd be cool for the player character to have a direct link to the critical events and actors of the setting's backstory.

Judging by how cool the majority of people (and especially fic writers) seem to find it, it's a hit!

[Enkidoh]

Azem's reveal was confirming what had always been hinted at since the very beginning of the story, that the player's character was different to everyone else, not just 'special', but better, stronger, faster than any other mortal, and that was underlined as they progressed from "wet-behind-the-ears adventurer" to "rising rabble-rouser talented in the Echo" to "the Warrior of Light, Eikon Slayer, Bane of the Garlean Legions, Stealer of Pants and Hydaelyn's Champion", and saying that they were the reincarnation of Azem the Wanderer finally gave a reason for why they were like that. It wasn't by chance, it really was 'fate' you're all those things and more.

This is different to FFXI where for almost all of it's story the player's character was never more than just a mildly talented adventurer who was nothing but a sidekick to the story NPCs who actually got all the credit for everything you did (only with the final scenario in Rhapsodies of Vana'diel did the player's character finally get some metaphysical credit for their efforts, being stated as they actually are asscended to literal godhood in the far future).

So it's possible FFXIV's writing teams are mindful of that, to give the player's character a lot more credit for their actions as the saviour of the world and everyone on it, rather than just being taken for granted as "they're just that good."

[KageTokage]

I am a little curious if they're going to bother touching on the subject of Azem a bit more directly in Pandemonium given that Themis/Elidibus seems to have them on speed dial.

Though honestly, I'd rather them remain frustratingly enigmatic then potentially tied into this ball of timey wimey shenanigans in a far more significant capacity then it seems on the surface.

[Rulakir]

Well, I can confirm that Emet still works as a character even without the Azem connection. The reason I know this is because EN localization for ShB was terrible and there's no indication Emet has any connection to the WoL whatsoever outside of Shade!Hyth saying, "Surely Emet-Selch has recognized the hint of "(him/her)" in you...?" Which doesn't mean much without any further context that we don't get until 5.3 (in EN).

Personally, I found once the relationship between Emet and Azem had been fleshed out the story had a lot more complexity and depth with Emet going from being a good antagonist to a great one. I was recently watching a video discussing author Dan Brown's article of what makes a great villain. He breaks it down into 5 key factors: a strong connection to the hero, clear morality, worthy opponent, fun factor, and compelling backstory. Emet hits most if not all of these with the only questionable one being morality since he's often at odds with himself.

I disagree that Emet was never friendly. It's just his personality which we see with his interactions with Hyth, but he was about as fond of the WoL as was possible given the circumstances. Not to mention in UT Emet tries to cheer up the WoL when he sees they're sad he's leaving. The exception may be Elpis and, at that time, Azem still existed so of course the WoL doesn't have the same effect on him.

As for the supposed "future sight", I have nothing positive to say about that and am hoping it's just going to turn out to be Azem either joking about being late or having sent Emet in their stead but the WoL beat him there.

I do think it's a shame that this storyline is in an MMO where it's hamstrung by involving the player character. I often wish they'd made Azem their own person like they did Ardbert.

[Cleretic]

This is all predicated on the strange idea that stories are written with logical, mechanical intent first and foremost, which obviously isn't true. Azem was probably introduced because the writers thought it'd be cool for the player character to have a direct link to the critical events and actors of the setting's backstory.

Judging by how cool the majority of people (and especially fic writers) seem to find it, it's a hit!

Admittedly, I'm coming at this from a perspective of not connecting to or liking that at all. I put a lot of that on the story of Amaurot being delivered to me in the one way that I would have always categorically rejected; I had no mental space or interest in writing in an insert given I spent most of the span of 5.x doubting that most of the story we were told was even true to any meaningful level. And even now, my answer to 'what was your character's Azem like' is one sentence long and born of frustration ('her name was Echidna and she spent every waking day earning that name's horrific reputation'). I'd prefer to write the character we confirmably are playing, instead of a theoretical character we're not. And in all honesty I don't think the story not having Azem would've stopped the fic writers from writing a comparable character in anyway; Amaurot's a world full of hot people and no real problems, and the explicit statement even without Azem was that our past lives were there anyway, you couldn't have stopped them writing their own OCs into it.

I'm coming at this from a mechanical and functional perspective because from my point of view, Azem can only exist in that space. A character that exists on-screen with personality could easily just exist to be weird, interesting or charming without providing a functional purpose to the story beyond that (and you could shave down the cast considerably with a red pen and 'does this character further the plot'). But when Azem doesn't exist in physical space to have personality, that instead puts them in the same realm as like, King Manfred of Ala Mhigo or the Emperor of Hingashi (and a lot of other political bodies in the game, come to think of it); they can't exist to be charming, so they must exist to further the story. And I don't really think Azem's doing that.

[Lurina]

Admittedly, I'm coming at this from a perspective of not connecting to or liking that at all. I put a lot of that on the story of Amaurot being delivered to me in the one way that I would have always categorically rejected; I had no mental space or interest in writing in an insert given I spent most of the span of 5.x doubting that most of the story we were told was even true to any meaningful level. And even now, my answer to 'what was your character's Azem like' is one sentence long and born of frustration ('her name was Echidna and she spent every waking day earning that name's horrific reputation'). I'd prefer to write the character we confirmably are playing, instead of a theoretical character we're not. And in all honesty I don't think the story not having Azem would've stopped the fic writers from writing a comparable character in anyway; Amaurot's a world full of hot people and no real problems, and the explicit statement even without Azem was that our past lives were there anyway, you couldn't have stopped them writing their own OCs into it.

I'm coming at this from a mechanical and functional perspective because from my point of view, Azem can only exist in that space. A character that exists on-screen with personality could easily just exist to be weird, interesting or charming without providing a functional purpose to the story beyond that (and you could shave down the cast considerably with a red pen and 'does this character further the plot'). But when Azem doesn't exist in physical space to have personality, that instead puts them in the same realm as like, King Manfred of Ala Mhigo or the Emperor of Hingashi (and a lot of other political bodies in the game, come to think of it); they can't exist to be charming, so they must exist to further the story. And I don't really think Azem's doing that.

That's fair enough, and I think it's reasonable to not really bond with the idea of Azem - this isn't the first time I've seen someone feel that way. But you should be conscious of the fact that you're searching for lakes in the desert. It's fan service. Even if they cant show Azem and they serve no mechanical purpose, the majority of people are going to feel that (a previous incarnation of) their character having a secret unique history and destiny that puts them above the average adventurer is neat for its own sake,

Like, if you'll forgive me getting kinda cynical, there's a reason that trope is in 90% of RPGs in the first place, even when it doesn't serve the plot. People like to feel special, and they like having a confirmed basis for their headcanons about being special. Plus, it's more fun as a writer if the protagonist you're building the story around has personal, complicated relationships with the villains; Ishikawa is obviously way into dynamics like that, with Emet and Zenos and so on.

Though, I wouldn't completely rule out Azem having some kinda indirect role in the story yet. Pandaemonium seems to be leaving the door open for that, and even though they said during the live letter that they weren't sure if they ever wanted to reveal their idea of what Azem was doing the Final Days, it wouldn't be the first time they've fibbed about an in-process storyline to avoid spoiling.

(Also, we are definitely getting some kind of playing-as-Azem content in the long term, IMO, even if only as a gimmick. It's too low-hanging a fruit for a writing team as historically indulgent as the FFXIV one.)

[Denishia]

I agree that WoL as Azem-shard was not necessary but an easy story beat to use. I'm another person who only loved Azem crystal's ally-summoning power as the in-universe party finder lore justification. I also at no point EVER found Emet likeable -or Amaurot society remotely appealing; I'd only play a character in that society if I was explicitly burning it to the ground. So that first point about the player possibly disagreeing with what Azem's choice would be during the Final Days if the writers don't do the smart thing of leaving it open-ended ... by stating that one of the WoL's past lives was best friends with the last character in the game that I want my WoL to be around there's a massive disconnect between Azem and the WoL that any additional info would only strengthen. I don't have an 'Azem' headcanon because the interest in acknowledging that part of my character is nil. Interest in other Shard WoLs like Ardbert who have the same Azem piece? Yes! But I fundamentally no different than interest in characters like Ysayle, Krile, Arenvald, Tenzin, and others who also possessed the Echo and/or Blessing of Light.

But it's that Chosen One Protagonist Centered Power Fantasy- and in regards to Emet and the WoL tied to the Azem he knew (game not leaving it open-ended enough for my tastes but thankfully just enough to allow the WoL to reject that emotional past Azem baggage) it can enter into the variant of that Chosen One Power Fantasy involving villains that I find particularly distasteful - where the villain dehumanizes everyone but makes a single exception in their treatment of others for the protagonist not because of the protagonist's values but because said protag will be that one special exception to affirm the villain's standards, thereby quasi-legitimizing the villain's treatment of others even if the protag is nominally defeating them. This is Zenos and his combat obsession with the WoL. And Emet's 'I don't think of you as living beings' except the WoL has an inherited shard of my old friend I think that will somehow overpower all their new life experiences and growth (disproved by ShB plot plus Gaia, and how Fandaniel is decidedly more Amon than Hermes). One is physical, the other emotional. It isn't something that can be readily divorced from a Chosen Hero narrative, though that's why the Power of Friendship, most exemplified in the MSQ by the Scions and the very nature of this being an MMO where combat (and some non-combat, like ocean fishing) content is not exclusively solo play, works to counteract that 'I'm the only special deserving character'.

I'm still annoyed that the WoL can use Azem's Crystal by descension from Azem instead of a more meaningful 'the WoL's choices to explore and help out everyone that they meet resonates with the spirit inside the Crystal who actively chooses to help based on the WoL's choices.' More agency, or at least illusion of. But then Venat gives something close.