We Need to Start Expecting Mid-Level Sprouts to Play Better

[Lami_Khatayin]

They should get the Novice Dungeon as a non-skipable thing,rework it a little which includes usage of Mitigations etc etc. Dont understand why its optional anyways. It gives you advices how you play your Class. Let them solve this before Sashtasha,so i dont get Level 90 Tank in P3 who things Arms Lenght is a TB Mitigation (...and im kidding you not,that happend to me 1 week ago,and that run was hilarious and shocking)

[DPZ2]

Should we expect players that have played for 100s of hours ... doing 100s of dungeons to know basic game play of their job at level 80/90? Yes.

Your first problem is that players who have played 100s of hours have definitely not played all of those hours in dungeons.

Your second problem is that there are well under 50 dungeons required by the MSQ by the time you reach level 80.

Your third problem is that players from other well-known MMOs who come in during the current expansion are not waiting around for 80 levels to get in on current content. For them, you have exactly 7 dungeon instances in the MSQ (through 6.1).

Can those people expand enough damage to successfully get through the MSQ? Yes. Does that experience equate in any way, shape or form to knowing basic game play for a particular job? Not really. Your non-dungeon MSQ experience makes you an adequate DPS. That's it.

Is this a game where you have to live with the fact that you're going to be playing with others whose level of experience does not match your own? Absolutely. How much you dislike that particular fact will enable you to decide if FC/Friends/Party Finder/General Roulette/Static is the means by which you queue for anything.

There is not really any MMORPG that I've encountered where this isn't so. Wildstar came close, but that whole debacle left a bad taste in the mouth for "raider-centric" MMOs. The housing was ok enough, although a bit uninspired.

[Stanazolol]

They should get the Novice Dungeon as a non-skipable thing,rework it a little which includes usage of Mitigations etc etc. Dont understand why its optional anyways. It gives you advices how you play your Class. Let them solve this before Sashtasha,so i dont get Level 90 Tank in P3 who things Arms Lenght is a TB Mitigation (...and im kidding you not,that happend to me 1 week ago,and that run was hilarious and shocking)

Sometimes people just press the wrong button. When I first started with an mmo mouse this happened to me a lot. Maybe a lot of these head scratching decisions are just a mistake on their part, not an actual lack of knowledge on how to play the game.

And actually this exact case because I have arms length right by Rampart. I usually pair them in trash pulls, but I know how easy it could be to hit the wrong one.

[Baxcel]

Your first problem is that players who have played 100s of hours have definitely not played all of those hours in dungeons.

Your second problem is that there are well under 50 dungeons required by the MSQ by the time you reach level 80.

Your third problem is that players from other well-known MMOs who come in during the current expansion are not waiting around for 80 levels to get in on current content. For them, you have exactly 7 dungeon instances in the MSQ (through 6.1).

Can those people expand enough damage to successfully get through the MSQ? Yes. Does that experience equate in any way, shape or form to knowing basic game play for a particular job? Not really. Your non-dungeon MSQ experience makes you an adequate DPS. That's it.

Is this a game where you have to live with the fact that you're going to be playing with others whose level of experience does not match your own? Absolutely. How much you dislike that particular fact will enable you to decide if FC/Friends/Party Finder/General Roulette/Static is the means by which you queue for anything.

There is not really any MMORPG that I've encountered where this isn't so. Wildstar came close, but that whole debacle left a bad taste in the mouth for "raider-centric" MMOs. The housing was ok enough, although a bit uninspired.

Could also point out that your required 300hrs before the game even recognizes you as no longer a new player(sprout) and that story and job skips now put you at lv80, meaning you could been in the dungeons the OP is talking about with having just started the game. A lot of player give newbies advice to do story skip because they don't like ARR(awful advice btw) and that dosnt help with the people not knowing their jobs too.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Well... that's a lot of new posts since I hit hay... me be like:


Ya'all on fire lol.

[Striker44]

This.
It's pretty well known that if you do anything that's considered disturbing the gameplay or experience for another player that it can be reported. Giving unwanted advice can be spun as harassment and lead to a temp ban for said person.

I'll add myself to the growing chorus of players who have never experienced any issue like this despite giving plenty of advice for several years. It's all about just basic human decency and being polite when you mention something. It's pretty well known that being a jerk is taken seriously be SE. Plenty of people seem just fine giving advice without being a jerk.

[Semirhage]

I'm far more tolerant toward the lower end of player skill than you'd think based on how I post here. Back in 2.x I was known for getting annoyed at people in Dreadwyrm gear clearly not giving a crap and just dancing around in alliance roulettes; their gear says they know better, and you're not "above" the roulette you queue for.

• Struggling with a dungeon's mechanics? I'll give advice if you ask for it or if you've died a few times. My mentor crown is there for a reason.
• Cat got out? Quick "oh shoot, afk" in the chat? Happens. Set me on follow if you'd like.
• Doing terrible damage for your level? It's one dungeon, I'll probably just roll my eyes and buckle down harder so it ends faster.
• Not in the mood for the Greatest Community Ever? I'll just run something with my static.

All of that? That's fine.

The place I draw the line is not trying, not wanting to try, considering criticism "toxic", basically projecting the virulence of the toxic casual community on anyone who's sick of their nonsense, and basically everything the GCBTW on the forums love to crow about. Newsflash, we're not generally "mean" in-game. That's not why the eyes start rolling. This "don't you dare tell me how to play you evil elitist toxic raider!" when you suggest using an AOE on packs of enemies exchange happens when toxic casual forum heroes obsessed with "evil elitists" knee-jerk at anyone who DARES suggest that this community isn't very skilled.

[LianaThorne]

I'll add myself to the growing chorus of players who have never experienced any issue like this despite giving plenty of advice for several years. It's all about just basic human decency and being polite when you mention something. It's pretty well known that being a jerk is taken seriously be SE. Plenty of people seem just fine giving advice without being a jerk.

Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That also shouldn't invalidate those who have dealt with people who can't handle that they do something wrong. I never said it was a vast majority of people that act that way either, thankfully most just want to get in and out and not chat. Ive personally only encountered a handful of people over the past couple of years that throw a fit over being told how to correct something. However, the occasion does occur where someone refuses to accept help and takes advice as a personal attack and reports over it.

[Melchkt]

You can be in the 87 dungeon and still be new enough to not know how to tank properly.

There are 80 (yes, eighty) dungeons between levels 15-87 currently, not including trials, raids or solo duties.
You absolutely should have a reasonable grasp of your role's responsibilities by level 50, let alone 87. Stop enabling bad behavior.

Learning to tank well is something that takes people years.

It doesn't, but this is largely irrelevant either way. No one is asking for the perfect tank. You're being asked to press your buttons.
Your coddling mentality is only preventing others from becoming better. Incentivize improvement, and it won't take years for them to learn.

[technole]

I just look at the whiny subpar single pull tank that can barely press buttons versus Thancred, whom you can pull ahead and bring mobs to him, and he won't give you any drama over it. He pushes cooldowns too.

When trusts play the game better than you, I don't have to say anything more.