We Need to Start Expecting Mid-Level Sprouts to Play Better

[AwesomeJr44]

Learning to tank well is something that takes people years. If I'm wrong, then why does it drive people away from WoW and why does SE punish people for it? It's because it's rude and being rude to another human being is unacceptable.

Because people want to be coddled and told that they are good enough even if they are not. But telling them that they are good enough is not toxic, especially if you don't go out of your way to call them trash, and you give them tips on how to not be bad. Calling anyone who demands basic competency toxic is why we have level 90 players who only cast ice spells and stand in telegraphed AOEs. It is not rude, you just take it as rude, and probably will take anything I say as rude unless it is "you're amazing, are perfect in every way, and do not need to improve whatsoever", so I do not care if I offend you as it is literally impossible to not offend people unless you pretend that they are are perfect and not being carried. The toxic casuals in this game literally think I want people to play at an ultimate level. I just want people to play at a skill level where they can contribute their fair share. This is literally the most basic take of all time. If you disagree with the idea of everyone giving their fair share, you are probably one of the people looking for carries.

I also find not contributing to be more rude than people who ask others to give their fair share. So if not contributing is rude, why is it not punished? Because SE caters to hyper casuals and does not care about the people who are forced to carry them.

And no, learning to tank at an average level does not take years. Keep in mind that I am not expecting people in Duty Finder to be gamer gods. I just want people to use one mitigation on mob packs, or at least do so when I ask them to. But the problem is, that people do not want to improve, and the system in place encourages bad play. I can literally go into Expert right now and do my basic 1-2-3 and I'm technically 'participating'

There's a limit. Someone else said it but after level 60 you don't get to be ignorant anymore.

Chances are though it's all the people that run roulettes with a full part of their friends that defend this behavior. They're rarely the ones that deal with the consequences.

^ This. You are not a noob past level 60. If you are in Stormblood, you have the experience of ARR and Heavensward. You are not an idiot. If you need more practice, go back to Heavensward dungeons and get the practice. Even if it takes you more time, it is the right thing to do. And I agree with the second point too. The people defending this are literally defending people being lazy and having others do everything for them. Are these people Vauthry's accounts?

[AnimaAnimus]

Reminds me of Urth's Fount back in the day. I used to queue for that and get my popcorn ready.

I used to run all kinds of stuff on my main character. Did all the extremes, maps, hunts, etc. Then HW got about halfway through, and it's about then that this became a much larger issue. I haven't touched extremes since Zurvan because I just cannot take beating my head against a wall because someone doesn't want to do the basics of their job, causing multiple, needless wipes anymore and laughed at the thought of doing ultimate. I basically log in, do a couple dailies and am done. I scratch my mmo itch in other games with a less fragile player base with content that really reflects that, for the most part. This game is mostly just a time sync for when I'm bored. It's a shame too, as someone who has been here since day 1 and almost lived in Vana 'diel for over a decade, I really wish I had the patience or a tight group to do more with.

[Saraide]

Learning to tank well is something that takes people years.

No, it doesnt. Tanking is not that deep. Not in dungeons. Hitting aoes and using mitigation is not something that takes years. The problem in that case is the player just being toxic and arrogant.

[AngelCheese77]

I'm of the opinion that if someone is trying or genuinely wants to learn, I'm happy to teach and any number of mistakes or silly slip ups are fine.

But if they ignore friendly advice with "shut up, you don't pay my sub" they deserve a boot from the instance because they don't the groups sub either, so why should we carry them?

A boot and a report of griefing from me. No mitigation in level 87 dungeon? Yeah I call griefer

[Elucesta]

People like to make alot of excuses about why they can't do something if its too difficult in this playerbase and they wonder why the devs dilute the difficulty of normal content.

My opinion.

[LaylaTsarra]

Another one of these threads. Ok.

[Shibi]

You can't really regulate people in what is, by it's very design, a highly casual focused story game. As a story based game, at the very core of it's design is that more experienced players will carry less experienced so they can get to the end of the story.

If you are a good player, and with healer abilities where they are, you should be able to heal through most novice-tank-silliness in normal content resulting in a masochistic-fun and nicely spicy run. Certainly, as a healer, you should never have any expectations of competence in normal content or expect the others to make your run easy and minimal-work.

If your DPS are also taking a bit of damage it gets harder, and I can understand asking your tank to help out with mitigations.

For me, and I can't tell you how to play obviously, getting the response "you don't pay my sub" and one has a decent reason to leave the group immediately. More than 3 wipes, and - for me - I also has a decent reason to ask for a disband.

[Cach]

Hopeless newbies and people that start cutting themselves if a run takes an extra 4 minutes deserve each other.

I'm not doing 4-men until the next level cap raise or a close friend needs help. I haven't even bothered to unlock the expert roulette, lol.

[AwesomeJr44]

Hopeless newbies and people that start cutting themselves if a run takes an extra 4 minutes deserve each other.

Honestly, I don't even care if the run takes 8 minutes longer as long as it is a fun experience. In the example I gave in my OP, the dungeon run actually wasn't that long compared to the average, the issue was the content of that time spent.

[Nizzi]

Learning to tank well is something that takes people years.