We Need to Start Expecting Mid-Level Sprouts to Play Better

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

All your biggest mistake is that you are starting too late, expecting mid-level sprouts to play better should've been the very first thing you should expect.

The problem is that you all allowed complacency to grow too big for it to be a big problem that can't be ignored anymore.

[Yeastyloins]

I personally would choose against giving players any info on it at all, as people cannot be trusted with that info ingame, and we already have fflogs for finding out precisely how we are doing.

A casual player is not going to upload logs to fflogs and data from fflogs is only going to be relevant within the patch itself and only relevant to the current raid tier and ultimates within the patch. Parses for UcoB during 5.1 do not hold any relevance to parses from 6.1 outside of speed comparisons. Further, parses from sub max level dungeons are going to widely swing and typically do not have a sample size large enough to accurately make determinations that are free of kurtosis. So FFlogs is useless to a person leveling in SB or ShB content in order to determine if they are doing right. A ranking system I'm proposing is presented playerside rather than public and is instance specific rather than something overall standing such as a Raider.IO score from WoW. It just a check for the person to see if they are doing a passable job, a better than passable job, or doing poor across metrics without assigning a numerical value.

Even if another player asks what dps ranking you got for the dungeon and they provide their ranking, a "great" rating could mean fundamentally that you were at the 66th percentile to the 99th percentile. And again, you just put in the TOS "Do not ask other players for end of duty rankings" and enforce it with the same harassment rules should the player freely disclose that info.

What you suggest then is that you hope player just decided to get better but alot of player have no idea that they are playing suboptimally to the point where they are grossy extending the time in which it takes to complete the dungeon or that their play is negatively impacting other party members. Unless they are real gamers, most players need external motivation to improve and there are ways to do this via metrics that could be provided by SE in a means that is constructive.

[Iustitia-sama]

no idea how you're gonna talk about "bottom" of the barrel when your med parse is between green and grey and not even in highest difficulty raids kekw but yeah, you do you, whatever makes you sooth your ego, at least you did better than some random guy in level 27 dungeon amarite?

dunno what logs your looking at but they're not mine, here are mine https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...one=42#zone=44
good try though lmao

A casual player is not going to upload logs to fflogs and data from fflogs is only going to be relevant within the patch itself and only relevant to the current raid tier and ultimates within the patch. Parses for UcoB during 5.1 do not hold any relevance to parses from 6.1 outside of speed comparisons. Further, parses from sub max level dungeons are going to widely swing and typically do not have a sample size large enough to accurately make determinations that are free of kurtosis. So FFlogs is useless to a person leveling in SB or ShB content in order to determine if they are doing right. A ranking system I'm proposing is presented playerside rather than public and is instance specific rather than something overall standing such as a Raider.IO score from WoW. It just a check for the person to see if they are doing a passable job, a better than passable job, or doing poor across metrics without assigning a numerical value.

Even if another player asks what dps ranking you got for the dungeon and they provide their ranking, a "great" rating could mean fundamentally that you were at the 66th percentile to the 99th percentile. And again, you just put in the TOS "Do not ask other players for end of duty rankings" and enforce it with the same harassment rules should the player freely disclose that info.

What you suggest then is that you hope player just decided to get better but alot of player have no idea that they are playing suboptimally to the point where they are grossy extending the time in which it takes to complete the dungeon or that their play is negatively impacting other party members. Unless they are real gamers, most players need external motivation to improve and there are ways to do this via metrics that could be provided by SE in a means that is constructive.

Players that want to get better will search out guides on their own and will accept advice like they do now, people who aren't interested won't, so I see no point in telling people ingame how good or bad they are. They could easily work it out though when the dungeons they run take 30mins+ while their fc friend may do it in in around 15.

[Bukachu]

dunno what logs your looking at but they're not mine, here are mine https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...one=42#zone=44
good try though lmao

What you linked is just your EW logs.

your median would include past expansions.

that's quiet literally how average is calculated, its 7th grade math.

[Yeastyloins]

SE could calculate DPS in a run but, that means 0.

If tank pulls w2w, your DPS will be different, compared to if tank pulls 1,2,3 packs.

like, DPS is such an irrelevant number in dungeons. not to mention certain classes will do more DPS in different scenarios.

and dont forget gear exists, which will change your DPS obviously.

even so, lets say you segregate people by "their dps done", what about healers?

Like yeah, for logs DPS does work to a certain degree, but main purpose of logs was never the parse, its to read the fight, hence why healer logs are quiet literally irrelevant. because 1. in order to "heal" a lot, people need to take damage a lot, which ultimately makes them worse, so ultimately, the more you heal, the worse your group is LOL.

And for tanks, sure you can measure damage taken/damage mitigated, but less you pull, less damage you'll take. you could pull one pack at a time, use all your mitigation, pull as slowly as possible, maybe even chill between packs until all your mitigation is up again.
+ kitting would mean you take less damage, while DPS would do less DPS due to adds moving.
and 99 other factors that I could list for either role, and aside from the fact that ranking for each role means too little, there's also a massive conflict of interest between each role.

I wasn't clear on the point of proposed ranking system. It isn't for matchmaking BUT it would be a way for the player to get feedback on their play to highlight areas in which they may be doing poorly in order to motivate them to improve at their own pace.

[Yeastyloins]

What you linked is just your EW logs.

your median would include past expansions.

that's quiet literally how average is calculated, its 7th grade math.

Literally irrelevant. EW has been out for a couple of months now and a person may have improved over time. Rat behavior and rat logic.

[Iustitia-sama]

What you linked is just your EW logs.

your median would include past expansions.

that's quiet literally how average is calculated, its 7th grade math.

yes and, I had to start some where, and when you get better as I have over time I would go up in the matchmaking, thats usually how skillbased matchmaking works yes? so overtime your put with people of similar skill level, are you a dunce or something?

[BaconBits]

Talking smack with hidden logs lmfao

[Yeastyloins]

dunno what logs your looking at but they're not mine, here are mine https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...one=42#zone=44
Players that want to get better will search out guides on their own and will accept advice like they do now, people who aren't interested won't, so I see no point in telling people ingame how good or bad they are. They could easily work it out though when the dungeons they run take 30mins+ while their fc friend may do it in in around 15.

Fair enough, I would hope that it could be worded or present in a means to improve rather than telling them they are bad. Again many players do not recognize whats going on in alot of situations so some form of feedback may have that motivation to look into resources. If they don't so be it, but I would argue that a good number of people would be more proactive in looking into resources even if they don't plan on doing savage/ultimate content.

[Bukachu]

Literally irrelevant. EW has been out for a couple of months now and a person may have improved over time. Rat behavior and rat logic.

I mean, that's literally my point bozo, stop barking at me.

I wasn't clear on the point of proposed ranking system. It isn't for matchmaking BUT it would be a way for the player to get feedback on their play to highlight areas in which they may be doing poorly in order to motivate them to improve at their own pace.

yeah that could work, like if its just a personal statistic that has nothing to do with API.