Gaius's speech in Praetorium vs Heavensward

[ICountFrom0]

All his talk, is foreshadowing heavensward and the leadership of Ishgard.

Your Gods are no different from those of the beasts - eikons, every one . Accept but this, and you will see how Eorzeas faith is bleeding the land dry . Nor is this unknown to your masters , which prompts the question - why do they cling to these false deities? What drives even men of learning

- even the great Louisoix

to grovel at their feet? The answer? Your masters lack the strength to do otherwise! For the world of man to mean anything, man must own the world. To this end, he hath fought ever to raise himself through conflict, to grow rich through conquest. And when the dust of battle settles, it is ever the strong who dictate the fate of the weak. Knowing this, but a single path is open to the impotent ruler - that of false worship. A path which leads to enervation and death . Only a man of power can rightly steer the course of civilization. And in this land of

cReEpInG mEnDaCiTy,
that one truth will prove its salvation. Cum Come, champion of Eorzea, face me! Your defeat shall serve as proof of my readiness to rule! It is only right that I should take your realm, for none among you has the power to stop me!

Every word of this, every single word describes the royals of Ishgard, of the church, the holy, and well... everything.

[Kranel_San]

Coincedance? I think not...

More seriously, Gaius's speech didn't bring something new. It came from his past experiences which represented many beastmen and the other races' civilizations alike. From Gaius's point of view (Which is translated to his speech) this also includes the three main cities and the Eorzean pantheon. It isn't something new, it's something in nearly every civilization and society.

[Cleretic]

For all I often end up talking about how ARR storytelling can't really stand as foreshadowing for future events because the story plan changed so much after that, Gaius' speech is probably the most fully-formed incarnation of what the original plans were, because he actually is speaking to a lot of things you can observe in the story surrounding him. Early FFXIV clearly did want to make a whole thing out of the dangers of religious zealotry, as well as the dangers of being universally anti-religion.

Just because Gaius was correctly identifying societal problems around him, doesn't mean his angle of 'stomp it all out, universally' was the right one.

[Cilia]

To my memory the story threads weren't being laid down until the very end of 2.3 - when we got our first whiff of Lady Iceheart (Ysayle) stealing a crystal shipment and (I believe) the stinger showing Lahabrea influencing Archbishop Thordan in some manner. You gotta remember 1.X bombed due for a multitude of reasons and A Realm Reborn was a big risk on SE's part - kind of why 2.1 - 2.3 is pretty much just filler, fighting monsters of the week (Moggle Mog, Leviathan, and Ramuh) with a political intrigue story that is given an unsatisfying conclusion halfway through Heavensward after a series of narrative disruptions. Until Yoshi-P proved XIV could be successful, the suits didn't want to invest too much in it.

I don't feel like arguing over Gaius' philosophy, and given the Twelve have been proven to exist in some capacity and not as primals...

[Cleretic]

To my memory the story threads weren't being laid down until the very end of 2.3 - when we got our first whiff of Lady Iceheart (Ysayle) stealing a crystal shipment and (I believe) the stinger showing Lahabrea influencing Archbishop Thordan in some manner. You gotta remember 1.X bombed due for a multitude of reasons and A Realm Reborn was a big risk on SE's part - kind of why 2.1 - 2.3 is pretty much just filler, fighting monsters of the week (Moggle Mog, Leviathan, and Ramuh) with a political intrigue story that is given an unsatisfying conclusion halfway through Heavensward after a series of narrative disruptions. Until Yoshi-P proved XIV could be successful, the suits didn't want to invest too much in it.

This is broadly true, but Ishgard did seem to be planned as the next stop (or at least an upcoming stop) even back in 1.0; in the ARR stretch they didn't know if there would be anything more than ARR, yes, but Ishgard seemed to pretty much always be the first destination for further content all the way up until we actually went to Ishgard. With 30-50 Dragoon telling the story of the Dragonsong War pretty much exactly as we'd hear it in Heavensward--albeit missing a few of the secret details--it makes sense that they probably had the broad strokes of Heavensward laid out, especially since it's an extension of, as I mentioned, the overall story of the dangers of religious zealotry they were big on at the time.

Gaius' speech fitting Thordan and company probably wasn't unintended, but it was probably less 'foreshadowing of the thing we're gonna do' and more just that both Gaius and Thordan were elements of the same story with the same overarching themes, so of course he'd be able to make comments that apply.

[Aneshda]

I don't feel like arguing over Gaius' philosophy, and given the Twelve have been proven to exist in some capacity and not as primals...

I have this feeling that the 12 are nothing more as a creation Hydaelyn's, a sentimental moment of her, because the original 12 got wasted away through her Summoning. So to be not all alone in the 7 Heavens, she created those 12.