Ardbert's Party vs the Scions Analysis

[CrownySuccubus]

In terms of parties who are part of or make up an organization of some kind, I cannot help but recall my experience many years ago when I played Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days. Despite having 13-14 members, Organization XIII at the time was able to provide much in the way of visual variety and distinct personalities. Love or hate those characters, they each brought something unique to the table for their respective fans to enjoy. The same kind of diversity just doesn't exist with the scions.

Yeah, no thanks to that. I mentioned in the other thread how some games (noteably, FFIX) uses shallowness or one-note jokes/gimmicks to give characters the illusion of "diversity" when they're all just flat characters. Another example of that is Organization XIII from KH, and I can also provide another example with the majority of Chrono Cross's cast. Having a lot of characters doesn't mean a lot when half or more of them are defined by a single character trait or recurring joke. It's another reason why, like I said before, "variety" isn't particularly relevant to how good or bad a group may be.

[aveyond-dreams]

Thank you for affirming that interesting visual designs do much in the way of increasing the palatability of these characters, even if they have limited screentime. However, I do think that these characters had sufficient depth for the story they were trying to tell and as you mention, each had distinct personalities and quirks that helped set them apart from each other. These are some positive design principles which should be considered for the makeup of the Season 2 cast.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Thank you for affirming that interesting visual designs do much in the way of increasing the palatability of these characters, even if they have limited screentime. However, I do think that these characters had sufficient depth for the story they were trying to tell and as you mention, each had distinct personalities and quirks that helped set them apart from each other. These are some positive design principles which should be considered for the makeup of the Season 2 cast.

I strongly disagree that Organization XIII had "sufficient depth" in their stories. Like I said, they're almost all just one-note characters with nothing else going for them. They lack any substantial arcs, they lack solid prevalence in the series (besides Roxas, Axel and now apparently Xigbar...), theyre all just basically glorified jobbers.

But you're right that I would love to see fresh new faces that'll tag along with the main FFXIV group (give me another hearty roegadyn, I miss Gosetsu so badly in this story) however I dont think I would want for the Scions to just end right here with Endwalker either since they've done some setup for interesting future arcs (we're currently experiencing one with Y'shtola atm if you havent noticed)

[Theodric]

I thought they played off of each other rather nicely. I believe they were also given some form of 'happy ending' as well when all was said and done?

Though if they don't count for whatever reason then one needs only look at the way in which the Turks play off of each other and Rufus Shinra throughout Final Fantasy VII and its various spin off titles.

[aveyond-dreams]

Admittedly my tolerance for any future storytelling surrounding Y'shtola was greatly diminished after the spectacle she made of herself in 6.1, which did not serve her character in a meaningful way. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the way in which Organization XIII was handled worked for the story they were trying to tell - as in a story intended for consumption by an audience far younger than the one FFXIV aims for. Even so, they were able to express more creativity in terms of their designs and personalities than the current scions. They had stakes and more consequences for their actions than in FFXIV's Season 1, which is why it is important to reflect back on why this piece of media was able to accomplish what FFXIV didn't.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Admittedly my tolerance for any future storytelling surrounding Y'shtola was greatly diminished after the spectacle she made of herself in 6.1, which did not serve her character in a meaningful way. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the way in which Organization XIII worked for the story they were trying to tell - as in a story intended for consumption by an audience far younger than the one FFXIV aims for. Even so, they were able to express more creativity in terms of their designs and personalities than the current scions.

A lot of KH fans (including myself) would still disagree with this statement. The individual members of Organization XIII were underplayed very heavily in the games to be taken as a better example to your argument over the Scions in terms of personality and depth.

[Iscah]

Admittedly my tolerance for any future storytelling surrounding Y'shtola was greatly diminished after the spectacle she made of herself in 6.1, which did not serve her character in a meaningful way.

The... spectacle? Casting the nixie spell, you mean?

That's actually probably the most character-ish thing she's done in a while. I can totally relate to the embarrassment I would feel if I had to recite something I'd made up as a seven-year-old but as an adult in front of other adults. The key thing isn't the spell itself but the discomfort she has before reciting it.

[aveyond-dreams]

The... spectacle? Casting the nixie spell, you mean?

That's actually probably the most character-ish thing she's done in a while. I can totally relate to the embarrassment I would feel if I had to recite something I'd made up as a seven-year-old but as an adult in front of other adults. The key thing isn't the spell itself but the discomfort she has before reciting it.

I think the key question to ask is why such an event is even taking place in the main story at all. How was this event supposed to grow her character? It would have been a better use of screen time to see her display something in the way of emotional vulnerability or opening up about her feelings on Runar, even if no other characters are there to witness it. A monologue to herself away from prying eyes where she could express the things she's buried deep inside herself. Possibly even cry, or reflect on the cost that her journey has truly taken on her so far.

Not the Nixie spell.

[Mikey_R]

I think the key question to ask is why such an event is even taking place in the main story at all. How was this event supposed to grow her character? It would have been a better use of screen time to see her display something in the way of emotional vulnerability or opening up about her feelings on Runar, even if no other characters are there to witness it. A monologue to herself away from prying eyes where she could express the things she's buried deep inside herself. Possibly even cry, or reflect on the cost that her journey has truly taken on her so far.

Not the Nixie spell.

It wasn't mean to grow her character now, it was meant to be a glimpse into her past.

Also, Y'Shtola doesn't show emotions, that is one of her traits. She is all about learning everything, the exception being with Runar, where it is shown she does let her guard down. However, this is then going to be used as a driving force for her to find a way back to the First and you can guarantee the portal they find in 6.1 is going to be of particular interest to her. She wants to know how the portal was formed and how it works so that she could potentially replicate it herself, not only for the expanded knowledge, but it is also a chance for her to reunite with Runar. Her determination to know more even overpowers her embarrassment which goes to show just how much she wants to learn more about this portal.

Her emotions are not on full display at all times, however, her actions certainly show what emotions she is feeling behind her stern nature.

[Carin-Eri]

It wasn't mean to grow her character now, it was meant to be a glimpse into her past.

Also, Y'Shtola doesn't show emotions, that is one of her traits. She is all about learning everything, the exception being with Runar, where it is shown she does let her guard down. However, this is then going to be used as a driving force for her to find a way back to the First and you can guarantee the portal they find in 6.1 is going to be of particular interest to her. She wants to know how the portal was formed and how it works so that she could potentially replicate it herself, not only for the expanded knowledge, but it is also a chance for her to reunite with Runar. Her determination to know more even overpowers her embarrassment which goes to show just how much she wants to learn more about this portal.

Her emotions are not on full display at all times, however, her actions certainly show what emotions she is feeling behind her stern nature.

She may let her guard down with Runar, but it really isn't clear whether her motivation to return to the First is to see Runar or to prove that she can complete what some think is impossible.