Ardbert's Party vs the Scions Analysis

[aveyond-dreams]

Actors who have contractual obligations and are promoted due to their big names to draw interest are completely different from CGI/drawn people who no one knew about before the media they were invented for became a thing. They may be main characters to you, but they're not main characters to the people who made them, apparently.

Emet-Selch and Venat are both popular characters who have been recently offed due to the needs of the story. The Scions' continued existence means that Yoshi-P obviously has more he wants to do with them and isn't necessarily due to any fear of killing characters. If he wanted to kill them, he has had many chances but at this point they're probably here to stay whether or not people grumble.

If it took him 10 years to bring the Scions to the point where they are now, that isn't enough to secure my confidence in these characters moving forward. I will continue to advocate for more significant developments for them if that is the case, at least until the new single-player releases coming up soon draw me further and further away from FFXIV.

[CrownySuccubus]

I've yet to meet anyone who actually likes Vaan and Penelo

*raises hand* Yo! That's me, right here.

I honesty liked them more than the rest of the cast, but I've always struggled to explain why. This is just my personal opinion, and I totally get that other people feelt he exact opposite...but I've never liked Matsuno's characters aside from a few. IIRC, Square forced Matsuno to insert Vaan and Penelo into the story late, because they thought his main cast wasn't appealing enough (or something like that, anyway), and maybe that's why they feel so "un-Matsuno" like to me.

Like I said, it's just a personal take. I can freely admit that V and P are not hallmarks of great writing, but they were the only characters in XII that felt like actual people to me. And again, that's something I usually feel about Matsuno's writing.

[Striker44]

This still does nothing to justify the current state of the scions or how little in the way of lasting consequences they've suffered over the course of the main story. Many of them have served their purpose. I for one see no reason as to why we should bring the likes of Thancred or Urianger into the void, much less the twins. Tolerating Y'shtola and the de-fanged Estinien is already quite an ask, to say nothing of the rest.

Say what? Y'shtola is blind and needs to use her personal aether to see thanks to her first trip through the lifestream. Thancred spent several expansions mourning Minfilia and had his entire character arc in ShB dedicated to finally coming to closure on that front. Alphinaud is still experiencing regrets over the Crystal Braves debacle. Arenvald (not a "main" character but still a Scion since ARR) is now in a wheelchair and has had to completely shift his purpose from front-line combat to diplomacy. Just to name a few. And again, of course, your post is couched in the whole "I am the arbiter of all things" tone instead of politely offering opinions. I see a simple reason for bringing some of them to the void - they're our adventuring companions. They're part of the party. Do we say we're only going to go to the movies with someone a certain number of times, and then decide they've "served their purpose" and it makes no sense to go see another movie with them? O.O

[VelKallor]

Tolerating Y'shtola and the de-fanged Estinien is already quite an ask, to say nothing of the rest.

Estinien is not the man he was, not the creature he was, he met his reflection and was healed..thanks again to another consequence ( remember when you said the WoL didnt need anyone else? ) of Alphinaud putting his life on the line to save him from himself.

He is now the man he could have been, had the War not taken place, at peace with his demons, healed, whole. Again with Yshtola and quote frankly i am still waiting for an answer to this

there would not be so many calls to replace her as the game’s postergirl and retire her from the cast.

Says WHO?

All I see is your opinion, an ill informed one at that, seeing as Heavensward was universally praised, Endwalker lauded, and here YOU are telling us all you could have done better???

OH PLEASE.

If it took him 10 years to bring the Scions to the point where they are now, that isn't enough to secure my confidence in these characters moving forward.

When or if you EVER reach Ishikawa Natsuko - san's level of writing excellence, I suggest you apply to Square Enix as a MSQ writer.

[EaraGrace]

It did. Aside from the character that dies in the intro, two of the guest characters that join the party end up dying as well.

If that’s our measuring stick then 14 meets 12’s example in each expansion.

[Iscah]

As I've also said before, if you are doing something meaningful with your cast members then there isn't a need to retire or kill them off. If you're not, then it is preferable for characters who have fulfilled their purpose to exit the stage so that others can have a chance to shine. Do you agree?

I don't agree.

The story needs some characters who are doing something interesting in every single plot, but it doesn't have to be the same characters all the time, and a stable core cast is important too.

In a shorter storytelling format, like a one-shot RPG story, all the characters wrap up their story arcs and "exit the stage" at the end of that one story, and there's no need for anyone to persist beyond that one interesting story about them.

Here, by the nature of the story format, characters persist. The longer this runs, the bigger the hypothetical pile of "dismissed" characters would get, and it would be sad to look back and have quite so many friends lost along the way.

The Scions are just there now, a reliable group of allies. I've seen their personal growth already and they don't need to keep having more of it to remain worthy of my company.

[aveyond-dreams]

It’s ok for a game to make you feel sad. Better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all, or worse have that love turn into disdain with time.

[Alleo]

But quite a few of us have already loved and lost characters from FF14. I lost two of my favorite characters (Haurchefant and Ysayle) and even losing someone like Moenbryda hurts. We also lost Ardbert even if he still is part of us.

The devs might not kill of the scions (now, we dont know what will happen in the future) but they have no problem with killing other beloved NPCs. They might not have been main characters but they still were important to quite a few people including someone like Haurchefant. You can see this by the amount of fanart and stuff posted. Or when you watch streamers and see how their face changes if certain characters are mentioned. People can care for more than the main casts and those dont need to die to have a game that leaves emotional impact.

And lets be real. I really doubt you would have liked Endwalker much more if they decided to kill 1-2 scions. (And more than that would be highly unlikely.)

[Avidria]

It’s ok for a game to make you feel sad. Better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all, or worse have that love turn into disdain with time.

The game has left me feeling sad before. Plenty of characters I loved have died or otherwise run off into the sunset, unlikely to be seen again. Heck, even the nameless random NPCs who have died or been otherwise impacted by MSQ events have had an emotional impact on me. I mean right down to the family that gets twisted into a pack of enemies in Vanaspati - that crap was horrifying. That entire segment was horrifying, and those were all entirely nameless characters. If I listed all the named characters I've liked who have died or been lost I'd probably be here for a while.

Point being, the world is bigger than the main cast, and I don't need main characters getting killed off for the story to have an emotional impact.

I don't even disagree that I'd like to see more character development and interesting dynamics, and even some new folks actually brought to the forefront, but I still don't agree with the calls to kill them off entirely.

...frankly the only Scion I'm genuinely surprised is still alive is Arenvald. Dude's been waving death flags for ages. I love the guy, but I'm shocked he's survived Endwalker so far.

[VelKallor]

I love the guy, but I'm shocked he's survived Endwalker so far.

As a foil for Fordola's story arc, perhaps..theres a "big brother" vibe going there.